Square colon notation?

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Individualised
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by Individualised »

It's not a thing in English (there just isn't a word for it, but I guess "multiplication sign" works), but it's certainly clever, I may start using it haha. Probably would be spelt more like criss as in criss-cross.
turboxray
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by turboxray »

rainwarrior wrote: Sat Dec 31, 2022 8:26 pm Python has a similar (but not compatible) "slice" notation for arrays:

Code: Select all

a[3:6] // a elements 3,4,5
a[2:8:2] // a elements 2,4,6
a[5:2:-1] // a elements 5,4,3
a[-3:] // last 3 elements of a (python negative indexing counts back from the end of a list)
a[-3:-1] // 3rd and 2nd last elements of a
^ This! Slice notation. Don't forget a[::-1] to reverse a list haha.

I would think anyone in modern software development, that's the first thing they would think when they see that notation.
Joe
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by Joe »

Pokun wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 11:47 amI can't find this word in any dictionary but words like "×-mas" and "×-tal" indicates that it's pronounced [kriss] which is close to the Swedish word for it (kryss) so I'm guessing it should be "cryss".
In xmas it's an abbreviation of Christ (from Χριστός), and I suspect xtal is derived from that usage. Calling it a "Christ" might be offensive, though. (And you should write those words with the letter x instead of the × symbol.)

I think it's usually called a cross.
Drag
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by Drag »

When you're doing matrix multiplication, there's "dot product" A · B and "cross product" A × B, which are two different (and incompatible) multiplication-like operations you can do, so I think "×" is probably called "cross" here.

Also, what I know as "tic-tac-toe" is called "naughts and crosses" (for O and X respectively) overseas, and I believe the X button on a playstation controller might also be called "cross" everywhere other than the US as well?
Oziphantom
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by Oziphantom »

× is Cross or Times
x is 'ecks'
is Cross for Cross Product so one might use ⨯ and × to show Cross and Times
Pokun
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by Pokun »

I see, I wonder were we gott kryss from in Swedish if there is no difference of naming between an orthogonal and diagonal cross symbol in English (for the record: in Swedish the orthogonal cross is called "kors" oddly enough and not kross as one might think but the etymological connection to the English "cross" is obvious).
Also to clarify, the Swedish word "kryss" has no particular meaning other than that you draw two intersecting diagonal lines, so the name refers to the geometric symbol itself (and its orientation), not any of its various uses. When used as the Latin letter X its "ecks" and when used as a multiplication sign × it's "multiplikationstecken" or "gångertecken" (times sign) etc, just like in English.

Drag wrote: Mon Jan 02, 2023 9:25 pm I believe the X button on a playstation controller might also be called "cross" everywhere other than the US as well?
In Swedish the ×-button has always been "kryssknappen" ("the criss-button") or just "kryss" since it's clearly a kryss rather than a kors, and it's not a letter (since the other 3 face buttons are also all geometric symbols and not letters like on Nintendo controllers). The SNES controller X-button is of course X-knappen (pronounced ecksknappen) since it refers to the Latin letter X.
Similarly the directional pad on Ninendo controllers has as far as I can remember both officially and colloquially always been "styrkorset" ("the control-cross") since it's shaped like a kors.
In Japanese the PlayStation ×-button is "batsu-botan" (where batsu is the generic word for the ×-symbol) and the d-pad is officially called "juuji-botan" (where "juuji" literally means "十-symbol", the Japanese kanji for 10, and is a generic word for the ✚-symbol).


I guess "criss" is better than "cryss" in English then. There is no difference in pronunciation anyway (unlike in Swedish where Y is a slightly different vowel from I) and it goes along well with crisscross as Individualised said.
OK it seems English is up for a new word so let's officially call the orthogonally-intersecting-lines-symbol "cross" and the diagonally-intersecting-lines-symbol "criss".
Anyone up for some noughts and crisses?
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rainwarrior
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by rainwarrior »

English does have the word crisscross. The etymology is referring to Christ's Cross, but it's entirely lost that meaning. Instead i t is used mostly to refer to multiple crossed lines, similar to how zigzag refers to multiple back-and-forth lines or movements. (Ping pong also comes to mind.)

Being a pair of similar sounds, it's almost like "criss" and "cross" each refer to one of the two diagonal strokes of a "crisscross". It can have a very slight playful or childish connotation.

Criss is not used by itself.
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Individualised
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by Individualised »

Pokun wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 11:22 am In Swedish the ×-button has always been "kryssknappen" ("the criss-button") or just "kryss" since it's clearly a kryss rather than a kors, and it's not a letter (since the other 3 face buttons are also all geometric symbols and not letters like on Nintendo controllers). The SNES controller X-button is of course X-knappen (pronounced ecksknappen) since it refers to the Latin letter X.
Similarly the directional pad on Ninendo controllers has as far as I can remember both officially and colloquially always been "styrkorset" ("the control-cross") since it's shaped like a kors.
In Japanese the PlayStation ×-button is "batsu-botan" (where batsu is the generic word for the ×-symbol) and the d-pad is officially called "juuji-botan" (where "juuji" literally means "十-symbol", the Japanese kanji for 10, and is a generic word for the ✚-symbol).
And I already knew that the Swedish for "crosshair" literally translates to "haircross", or atleast I remember reading that a while ago. (Maybe this should be split off into the off-topic section)
Pokun
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Re: Square colon notation?

Post by Pokun »

Yup that's correct, we say hårkors where hår means hair (Å is pronounced like the A in "walk" or "talk") since it's a cross made of pieces of hair (or hair-fine lines) attached in the scope glass.

rainwarrior wrote: Tue Jan 03, 2023 11:47 am English does have the word crisscross. The etymology is referring to Christ's Cross, but it's entirely lost that meaning. Instead i t is used mostly to refer to multiple crossed lines, similar to how zigzag refers to multiple back-and-forth lines or movements. (Ping pong also comes to mind.)

Being a pair of similar sounds, it's almost like "criss" and "cross" each refer to one of the two diagonal strokes of a "crisscross". It can have a very slight playful or childish connotation.

Criss is not used by itself.
Yeah both crisscross and zigzag belongs to a branch of onomatopoeia that mimics a symbolic sound of an action or state (that doesn't actually make any sound in reality) rather than mimicking an actual sound such as a dog bark. Japanese has a lot of these "mimetic" words and they are called gitaigo (for feelings, AKA "psychomime") or gijougo (for non-feeling actions or states), but crisscross is a good example of an English mimetic word and they tend to get a sort of playful feel to them. We have zigzag in Swedish too (but it's said a bit differently "sicksack"), we don't have crisscross however AFAIK.

So is "cryss" better to adopt than criss? It might go better with "crystal" spelled as X-tal and mimics the Swedish word "kryss".
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