SNES button mapping

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Pokun
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by Pokun »

I think you are missing the point again. What makes you think I posted those images as examples of how you are supposed to hold the button? I did not.
And why are you saying you don't care that the buttons were once named differently? You were the first to point out that SNES B and Y are successors to NES A and B, and everyone here agreed with you. I just posted those images to reinforce the the heritage and show proof that there is a connection for any readers of the thread.

The only thing we really disagreed about is which button is best for the sword in a game like Zelda, everything else we agreed about. And I'm as concerned about you that the controls in a game are thought through properly as to what most players would expect from the genre.
SNES AYE
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by SNES AYE »

Pokun wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:23 pm I think you are missing the point again. What makes you think I posted those images as examples of how you are supposed to hold the button? I did not.
And why are you saying you don't care that the buttons were once named differently? You were the first to point out that SNES B and Y are successors to NES A and B, and everyone here agreed with you. I just posted those images to reinforce the the heritage and show proof that there is a connection for any readers of the thread.

The only thing we really disagreed about is which button is best for the sword in a game like Zelda, everything else we agreed about. And I'm as concerned about you that the controls in a game are thought through properly as to what most players would expect from the genre.
Well, my point was I don't think he should move the sword attack to B for the reasons I said, one of which was that Y is the main/primary button on SNES for the reasons I said. Then I added that I also think B is the main/primary button on NES for the reasons I said. And, of course, I said that anyone is free to use whatever they want to do whatever they want, but I have my view on that. Outside of that, I think maybe it's you who misunderstood my point if you thought I was saying anything else beyond something in support of those points. Did you? My apologies if I somehow confused you with what I said.
Pokun
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by Pokun »

Well if you understood my and others' points I was expecting that you would comment our views that questioned some of your arguments instead of just saying the same things again like nothing had changed.
But if you don't want to continue the discussion that's perfectly fine too.
SNES AYE
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by SNES AYE »

I don't think it's necessary. The guy making the game already has all my feedback and the reasoning behind it. He's free to do whatever he wants with that. And we're mostly on the same page anyway, so I don't think we need to over-debate those points. I'm just looking forward to seeing how his game progresses. :)
tepples
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by tepples »

Is remembering button mapping preferences worth the cost of adding battery RAM to a board? If not, what else would make it worth it?
calima
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by calima »

Complex enough game that it needs a save, not just a password. Just a button preference, not worth the cost.
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TmEE
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by TmEE »

There could be "hold down this button for that conf when powering" or such for selecting one's preferred conf without having to go into a menu first.
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jeffythedragonslayer
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by jeffythedragonslayer »

Star Fox makes choosing your control scheme the first thing you do after the title screen.
Pokun
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by Pokun »

Super Game Boy also doesn't save its option, but changing it each time is quite quick if you really need to since it's just two pre-made control schemes to choose between. You also often want to change a few other things like color scheme and border.

But if you have multiple settings to save and a high-score screen I guess you are getting close to justifying the need for battery+RAM.
If you want to save only a few bytes or bits would it be feasible to somehow create RAM using discrete components to save the cost of an SRAM chip?
calima
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by calima »

Not RAM, but EEPROM is cheap, though it would need a custom mapper and specific code. However custom mapper -> large MOQ. SRAM+battery is like 2$ when an EEPROM is 5-20 cents. The batteryless options, FRAM/MRAM/etc are more expensive than SRAM+battery. Parallel EEPROMs exist, which can sometimes work for SRAM replacement, but they are more expensive as well since nobody is buying them in $current_year. (hw folks do correct me, plenty chance I've missed something)

I've been thinking about designing such a cheap board for GB, since on that market there is a distinct lack of cheap, quality boards. But shipping stuff is such a PITA, not sure I'll bother, at least until I need such for my own stuff.

NES, SNES already have quality boards that are cheap enough. Though a very popular release might benefit from a cost-reduced board there.
lidnariq
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by lidnariq »

Prices on parallel NOR flash have been increasing over the past couple years. Foundries have been booked for years in advance, and parallel NOR flash (both 3V and 5V types) have been deferred as a result, with the commensurate price increases due to reduced supply.

But at least for now you can still get suitable parts for use in retro systems and save button configuration in same.
UnDisbeliever
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by UnDisbeliever »

The control scheme I planned for my game was:
  • Y - sword attack
  • B - dash or jump (undecided which)
  • X/A - use item
  • L/R - defend
If I wasn't planning to add a dash button (to add some variety to combat) I agree that B should be attack. Now I'm not so sure. When I have some free time, I'll experiment with mapping the sword button to B, Y or A and see which one feels best after a few playthroughs.

Either way, adding a customisable control scheme will not be difficult. The hardest part will be the menu.
SNES AYE
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Re: SNES button mapping

Post by SNES AYE »

UnDisbeliever wrote: Mon Feb 13, 2023 6:32 am The control scheme I planned for my game was:
  • Y - sword attack
  • B - dash or jump (undecided which)
  • X/A - use item
  • L/R - defend
If I wasn't planning to add a dash button (to add some variety to combat) I agree that B should be attack. Now I'm not so sure. When I have some free time, I'll experiment with mapping the sword button to B, Y or A and see which one feels best after a few playthroughs.

Either way, adding a customisable control scheme will not be difficult. The hardest part will be the menu.
I shall propose this configuration based on what you just said above:
  • Y - sword attack
  • B -jump
  • X/A - use items (with the ability to assign a different one to each, if that's not already an option)
  • L - dash
  • R - defend
This would allow you to have both dash and jump, and dash and defend would be on buttons that you can easily hold at the same time as pressing a face button to do either of those actions while still attacking with your primary weapon, for say a charging forward sword stab by press dash plus attack, or a shield thrust by pressing attack while holding defend. Plus, you can still easily rock to B to jump and then tap Y for a jumping slash.

It's just off the top of my head, but that was what I immediately thought. And, of course, it's your game. I'm just sharing my thoughts.

Edit: Actually, I might flip L and R, so defend is on L (the left of the controller), which feels like a reversing/retreating action (going backwards in some way is typically represented by going to the left in the Western world), and dash is on R (the right of the controller), which feels like a moving forward motion (going forwards in some way is typically represented by going to the right in the Western world). And that still applies regardless of what direction the player is facing, as we still tend instinctively understand and follow those visual language conventions through years of it being that way in movies and reading and typical comic strip layouts and timelines and so on. Hopefully that makes sense to you.

But, like you said, test all the options and see what's most intuitive and actually feels the best.
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