indoctrinated reality in nesdev(?)
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donato-zits-
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indoctrinated reality in nesdev(?)
that place where I try to be helped seems dislike to teach art in games to the society, and do not have deal to help in Assembly encouragement in this way(games);I dont wanna have to learn any C computational language, lvmos its not important if the developer dont wants to learn to use it, there is a more pure way I already knows about it...well, I am yet tryin to converse with then, and feel it in a better vibration with the pass of time
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Last edited by donato-zits- on Fri Nov 08, 2024 6:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
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segaloco
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Unfortunately you're not going to really find courses in any modern educational system facilitating video game development in assembly. Modern consoles and computer platforms have so much between you and the basic computations of the CPU, for instance, virtual memory, caching, multi-CPU synchronization, bus architectures, and then the various concerns of audio and video presentation involve all sorts of little DSPs and highly-parallel systems which would require their own, distinct low-level code. I don't know that you even *can* write anything lower than, say, SPIR-V for GPUs. That's not even to mention all the software between you and the CPU. Long gone are the days where you write the code that the RESET vector of the CPU jumps to, meaning you are always operating in someone else's idea of what a sanitized machine state looks like.
In any case, if you're looking for classes on assembly, you're probably only going to find that stuff in systems design and hardware engineering tracks. If you're looking to learn about modern architectures, you'd probably want to look at the OS and peripheral hardware track. If you're more interested in things like 8-bit CPUs like the 6502 and Z80, these are still quite popular in deeply embedded applications like industrial automation hardware, so you'd want to look into that world instead if you hope to find classes that actually touch on these platforms from an assembly perspective.
Either way, going to some university or collegiate institution, you're very, very unlikely to find any classes concerning the use of assembly, especially in isolation, for programming modern consumer applications like video games.
In any case, if you're looking for classes on assembly, you're probably only going to find that stuff in systems design and hardware engineering tracks. If you're looking to learn about modern architectures, you'd probably want to look at the OS and peripheral hardware track. If you're more interested in things like 8-bit CPUs like the 6502 and Z80, these are still quite popular in deeply embedded applications like industrial automation hardware, so you'd want to look into that world instead if you hope to find classes that actually touch on these platforms from an assembly perspective.
Either way, going to some university or collegiate institution, you're very, very unlikely to find any classes concerning the use of assembly, especially in isolation, for programming modern consumer applications like video games.
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donato-zits-
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Matthew Gilmore unfortunelly I dont know if I am allowed to read your words, your mind seems to be a/in "suspicius lost duck thinking" or slt, if you could translate here I will read for sure, you can make it? without IA?lest say without chat gpt? or any tittle that the people give to it...
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segaloco
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Well I tried, but something is getting lost in translation. Good luck!
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nocash
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Nice try, Gilmore. But like nameless raindrops, drowning in the deepest oceans, logic do not will happen.
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Fisher
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Well, looks like you're at something very similar to what I was around 20 years ago. @donato-zits-!
I studied at a Federal Institute campus in my city called Instituto Federal Farroupilha.
At first, I thought that I would learn exactly what I wanted, but not!
Many teachers didn't know much about those things and I was utterly disappointed.
I remember I even got a zero for a work that I did in x86 assembly, even with lots of comments, because the teacher didn't understand what I was doing.
And I wasn't doing anything "funny" just creating a palette with some red tones, throwing it at the screen, and moving it! It was a nice fire effect using int13 if I remember correctly.
The fact is, they're going to try to prepare you to work on the mainstream market, and assembly is rarely used in these.
Another thing that I discovered is that some teachers, although nice and cool, don't know much about a vast base of knowledge but have vast knowledge on a very limited scope of things. Some of them have not even worked on a regular job before; they have just studied all their lives!
Also, modern gaming platforms, as stated in this topic before, are way more complex than they were a while ago.
There are a lot of inner communication and resource sharing and other things that are "abstracted".
So programming them in low-level languages would be very difficult. if not impossible.
So what I did was to "play the game" and try to learn what was being taught, because it makes you better at thinking logically, and I think this is the key to any learning and development.
The best source to learn assembly and any other low-level stuff is forums like this.
I bet most people here just learn the basics and the logic in formal education, then start talking to each other and testing stuff until they discover what works and not and then document it.
So, be patient. If you like to make games and stuff, these courses will be a good place to start.
The idea is to prepare you for "the market", and unfortunately in our country the game development market is small, but this can change!
I could also recommend you to try something like computer science (or like I say as a joke "occult computing sciences"), mechatronic, or telecom engineering which tends to teach lots of low-level stuff and algorithms. So you probably will learn a little more of what you want, but probably not everything.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I kind of saw my past me here.
I studied at a Federal Institute campus in my city called Instituto Federal Farroupilha.
At first, I thought that I would learn exactly what I wanted, but not!
Many teachers didn't know much about those things and I was utterly disappointed.
I remember I even got a zero for a work that I did in x86 assembly, even with lots of comments, because the teacher didn't understand what I was doing.
And I wasn't doing anything "funny" just creating a palette with some red tones, throwing it at the screen, and moving it! It was a nice fire effect using int13 if I remember correctly.
The fact is, they're going to try to prepare you to work on the mainstream market, and assembly is rarely used in these.
Another thing that I discovered is that some teachers, although nice and cool, don't know much about a vast base of knowledge but have vast knowledge on a very limited scope of things. Some of them have not even worked on a regular job before; they have just studied all their lives!
Also, modern gaming platforms, as stated in this topic before, are way more complex than they were a while ago.
There are a lot of inner communication and resource sharing and other things that are "abstracted".
So programming them in low-level languages would be very difficult. if not impossible.
So what I did was to "play the game" and try to learn what was being taught, because it makes you better at thinking logically, and I think this is the key to any learning and development.
The best source to learn assembly and any other low-level stuff is forums like this.
I bet most people here just learn the basics and the logic in formal education, then start talking to each other and testing stuff until they discover what works and not and then document it.
So, be patient. If you like to make games and stuff, these courses will be a good place to start.
The idea is to prepare you for "the market", and unfortunately in our country the game development market is small, but this can change!
I could also recommend you to try something like computer science (or like I say as a joke "occult computing sciences"), mechatronic, or telecom engineering which tends to teach lots of low-level stuff and algorithms. So you probably will learn a little more of what you want, but probably not everything.
Sorry for the wall of text, but I kind of saw my past me here.
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donato-zits-
- Posts: 92
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
hello Fisher! I can't read you frenger...if you for true wants that I can read what you throws here please try to go across the same approach asked to mister Gilmore
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Fisher
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Caraca!
Bom, estou escrevendo em português aqui.
Acredito que vc seja fluente, já que parece estudar num Instituto Federal de Santa Catarina.
Na outra mensagem eu basicamente falei que também estudei em um Instituto Federal Farroupilha em minha cidade, a cerca de 20 anos.
Eu achei que aprenderia o que eu queria mas fiquei bastante desapontado pois não aprenderia, chegando até mesmo a levar zero em um trabalho feito em assembly pq o professor não conseguiu entender.
Resumindo: o objetivo desses institutos é "preparar para o mercado de trabalho".
O que não é de todo ruim, pois vc vai melhorar o seu pensamento lógico, o que vai ajudar não só no desenvolvimento, mas em várias outras coisas.
Caso queira algo que lhe ensine mais sobre o hardware em si, seria bom tentar algum curso de "Ciências Ocultas da Computação", engenharia de Telecom ou Mecatrônica.
Acho que a maioria dos membros deste fórum aprenderam o básico na educação formal e depois foram se aperfeiçoando nos sistemas retrô basicamente por tentativa e erro, documentando esse processo.
Então, tenha paciência.
De qualquer forma o curso que está fazendo lhe ajudará, provavelmente de forma indireta, a alcançar seus objetivos.
Erga a cabeça e siga em frente, no seu rimo, claro!!
The part below was translated with Google because I'm just too lazy to write it all again in English and don't want people here to don't understand what I'm talking:
Wow!
Well, I'm writing in Portuguese here.
I believe you're fluent, since you seem to study at a Federal Institute in Santa Catarina.
In the other message I basically said that I also studied at a Farroupilha Federal Institute in my city, about 20 years ago.
I thought I would learn what I wanted, but I was quite disappointed because I didn't learn, and I even got a zero on a project done in assembly because the teacher couldn't understand.
In short: the goal of these institutes is to "prepare you for the job market".
Which isn't all bad, because you'll improve your logical thinking, which will help not only in development, but in many other things.
If you want something that teaches you more about the hardware itself, it would be a good idea to try a course in "Hidden Computer Sciences", Telecom Engineering or Mechatronics.
I think most of the members of this forum learned the basics in formal education and then improved on retro systems basically through trial and error, documenting this process.
So, be patient.
In any case, the course you are taking will help you, probably indirectly, to achieve your goals.
Hold your head high and keep moving forward, at your own pace, of course!!
Bom, estou escrevendo em português aqui.
Acredito que vc seja fluente, já que parece estudar num Instituto Federal de Santa Catarina.
Na outra mensagem eu basicamente falei que também estudei em um Instituto Federal Farroupilha em minha cidade, a cerca de 20 anos.
Eu achei que aprenderia o que eu queria mas fiquei bastante desapontado pois não aprenderia, chegando até mesmo a levar zero em um trabalho feito em assembly pq o professor não conseguiu entender.
Resumindo: o objetivo desses institutos é "preparar para o mercado de trabalho".
O que não é de todo ruim, pois vc vai melhorar o seu pensamento lógico, o que vai ajudar não só no desenvolvimento, mas em várias outras coisas.
Caso queira algo que lhe ensine mais sobre o hardware em si, seria bom tentar algum curso de "Ciências Ocultas da Computação", engenharia de Telecom ou Mecatrônica.
Acho que a maioria dos membros deste fórum aprenderam o básico na educação formal e depois foram se aperfeiçoando nos sistemas retrô basicamente por tentativa e erro, documentando esse processo.
Então, tenha paciência.
De qualquer forma o curso que está fazendo lhe ajudará, provavelmente de forma indireta, a alcançar seus objetivos.
Erga a cabeça e siga em frente, no seu rimo, claro!!
The part below was translated with Google because I'm just too lazy to write it all again in English and don't want people here to don't understand what I'm talking:
Wow!
Well, I'm writing in Portuguese here.
I believe you're fluent, since you seem to study at a Federal Institute in Santa Catarina.
In the other message I basically said that I also studied at a Farroupilha Federal Institute in my city, about 20 years ago.
I thought I would learn what I wanted, but I was quite disappointed because I didn't learn, and I even got a zero on a project done in assembly because the teacher couldn't understand.
In short: the goal of these institutes is to "prepare you for the job market".
Which isn't all bad, because you'll improve your logical thinking, which will help not only in development, but in many other things.
If you want something that teaches you more about the hardware itself, it would be a good idea to try a course in "Hidden Computer Sciences", Telecom Engineering or Mechatronics.
I think most of the members of this forum learned the basics in formal education and then improved on retro systems basically through trial and error, documenting this process.
So, be patient.
In any case, the course you are taking will help you, probably indirectly, to achieve your goals.
Hold your head high and keep moving forward, at your own pace, of course!!
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donato-zits-
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2022 11:14 am
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Fisher canarada...que bela respirada vc me permitiu dar! muito grato fiko! sim estou querendo continuar, toda semana vou visitar eles, e tem um dos institutos de uma cidade próxima q tem curso voltado para desenvolvimento de games, mas de uma maneira que não me agrada acho, enfim, eles podem abrir uma via aki tb, sei q tem pessoas que adorariam estudar assim, saudações!
Fisher fellas...what a good breathing you allow me to take! too much gratefful I am! yes I'm seaching for keepeng going, all the week I go to visit then, and there is one of the institute centers in a near town that have a course directionated to the gaming develop, but in a sendero that I do not apreciate too much, well, they can open a course of action here too, I know that there is people that will adore study like that, greetings!
Fisher fellas...what a good breathing you allow me to take! too much gratefful I am! yes I'm seaching for keepeng going, all the week I go to visit then, and there is one of the institute centers in a near town that have a course directionated to the gaming develop, but in a sendero that I do not apreciate too much, well, they can open a course of action here too, I know that there is people that will adore study like that, greetings!
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Oziphantom
- Posts: 1980
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
I understand you are Brazilian and that you speak Portuguese, sadly there are not many books on 6502 in Portuguese. There is a Spanish section here https://commodore.bombjack.org/commodor ... guages.htm and Spanish to Portuguese should be a lot better for Machine translation than English to Portuguese, so you might be able to get a better understanding from it.
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nocash
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
I am having troubles to understand if this an arts project, or a translation issue, or a conspiracy theory, or some of it all.
Reading donato-zits- posts is having a near total knock-out effect on my brain, so that would definetly qualify as an intended or unintended arts project. Uhm, I thought that donato- had completely lost it when he came up with Matthew Gilmore (although, I have meanwhile checked segaloco's webpage, and he seems to be really going by that name).
Some things like Indoctrinated reality, I dont know if I am allowed to read your words, and name dropping the almighty ChatGPT sound like plain paranoia. Life as an assembler programmer isn't easy, and you might feel as if you don't fit in. But take care not to drift into conspiracy theories.
Translation issues are plentiful...
Gratefful, keepeng, apreciate, tittle - that seem to be misspelled english words. On the positive side, that looks human (as opposed to gibberish generated by bots or poor translation software).
Sendero - I had to look up what that means, it seems to be portugeese for path or way.
Lvmos, a/in, slt, IA?lest, fellas - I don't know if those words or abbreviations exist in any language.
Well, and the reversed grammar. I assume IA might mean AI in english. And "grateful I am" would be "I am grateful" in english. If you are "too grateful", that could also imply that you should be less grateful. And if you are "too much grateful", that's just too much in english, and it might be bordering on sarcasm (people might be unsure if you are getting angry or breaking out in tears).
Reading donato-zits- posts is having a near total knock-out effect on my brain, so that would definetly qualify as an intended or unintended arts project. Uhm, I thought that donato- had completely lost it when he came up with Matthew Gilmore (although, I have meanwhile checked segaloco's webpage, and he seems to be really going by that name).
Some things like Indoctrinated reality, I dont know if I am allowed to read your words, and name dropping the almighty ChatGPT sound like plain paranoia. Life as an assembler programmer isn't easy, and you might feel as if you don't fit in. But take care not to drift into conspiracy theories.
Translation issues are plentiful...
Gratefful, keepeng, apreciate, tittle - that seem to be misspelled english words. On the positive side, that looks human (as opposed to gibberish generated by bots or poor translation software).
Sendero - I had to look up what that means, it seems to be portugeese for path or way.
Lvmos, a/in, slt, IA?lest, fellas - I don't know if those words or abbreviations exist in any language.
Well, and the reversed grammar. I assume IA might mean AI in english. And "grateful I am" would be "I am grateful" in english. If you are "too grateful", that could also imply that you should be less grateful. And if you are "too much grateful", that's just too much in english, and it might be bordering on sarcasm (people might be unsure if you are getting angry or breaking out in tears).
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Oziphantom
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
I think lvmos is meant to be LLVM MOS part of the "I don't want C" case.
Fella = a male to which Fellas is the plural.
Fella = a male to which Fellas is the plural.
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donato-zits-
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
I read a lot of wrong words and troughts bout me again and right now I just have time to show³ it:"Official of not official, this is the question" ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
Edit: bout mister Gilmore, I just dont know him, why I could have to read someone?maybe idk, after..and well I learn a new world today, Chappie? but if you think this 凸-_-凸 means something bad you your head that is in polution, thinks better could be my advice... and I.A. is allmight, right² but not for to be like us you know? well I dont under stood the prases well yet, I need a second read for be sure about some ideas that you throw, anyway lot of wrong words for sure, idk why this kind of no good vibration here..you are weird, like the knowedge could be only for you and you and you and people like ypu and people that just want to be like you...very weird, but well the too much people still have troubles. You like to get the people that is not whit you to getting you condition better yet that allready are, just for go ahead with chunks of the science that you dont are preapared to know yet because you are forgetting about yourselves, about still is in the past, forgeting by you
You are all in a side that is better to you right?well cool for you, great! but use the wrong words only to make you beetter situation go to be better yet can brings a no equilibrate and no good timing situation that will make no good thing happen to the blablabla³ world( the world that you think); hein! that is the same to human stepted overall; like E.t. said in the movie "be good, take care" ´• ل •`
Edit: bout mister Gilmore, I just dont know him, why I could have to read someone?maybe idk, after..and well I learn a new world today, Chappie? but if you think this 凸-_-凸 means something bad you your head that is in polution, thinks better could be my advice... and I.A. is allmight, right² but not for to be like us you know? well I dont under stood the prases well yet, I need a second read for be sure about some ideas that you throw, anyway lot of wrong words for sure, idk why this kind of no good vibration here..you are weird, like the knowedge could be only for you and you and you and people like ypu and people that just want to be like you...very weird, but well the too much people still have troubles. You like to get the people that is not whit you to getting you condition better yet that allready are, just for go ahead with chunks of the science that you dont are preapared to know yet because you are forgetting about yourselves, about still is in the past, forgeting by you
You are all in a side that is better to you right?well cool for you, great! but use the wrong words only to make you beetter situation go to be better yet can brings a no equilibrate and no good timing situation that will make no good thing happen to the blablabla³ world( the world that you think); hein! that is the same to human stepted overall; like E.t. said in the movie "be good, take care" ´• ل •`
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Fisher
- Posts: 1299
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Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Let me try to summarise it:nocash wrote: Fri Nov 01, 2024 10:22 pm I am having troubles to understand if this an arts project, or a translation issue, or a conspiracy theory, or some of it all.
If I did understand correctly, the donato-zits-'s "mother language" is Spanish.
He is trying to study technology at a Brazilian school, that speaks Portuguese, and has some difficulty with English.
The school just can't teach him the assembly language he wants.
Mostly he's sharing his frustration about it here.
I tried to give him some positive words by telling him I had almost the same problems back when I was younger while trying to motivate him to go ahead and study what that school had to offer because that probably would help him with logical thinking.
The indoctrination part comes from the fact that some schools here try to change the way the students think, but that's mostly related to politics and human sciences, a very controversial subject that I do not want to deal with, especially here.
So basically, some drama.
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segaloco
- Posts: 913
- Joined: Fri Aug 25, 2023 11:56 am
Re: indoctrinated reality(?)
Yeah idk what was going on, I assumed he was lamenting a lack of resources regarding game programming in asm in university. Now I'm getting name dropped repeatedly...I'm just gonna assume you got that from my GitLab, can't a guy just be a name haver in peace 