nesdev.org

Ok, so the famicom adapter has a lockout chip, the NES system has a lockout chip, am I able to use the famicom adapters lockout chip to replace the original NES one? I know, I don't know need it lol.. but I'm trying to do something and I'd previously removed the 4th pin and it came OUT of the IC so I can't just solder on a workaround. I'm curious if I pull the famicom adapters lockout IC that if it'll work in the NES system under some logic that perhaps the pinout is the same and has the same functionality...? Not completely sure if it does. Both chips read 3193 but the NES is 3193A and the famicom adapter is just 3193, it makes me wonder if the functionality is slightly off from what the NES system would accept as a viable replacement. Any thoughts? Thanks guys.

Why do you want to use one from a relatively rare adapter, instead of pulling on from any NES game?

Honestly? I had no idea games had lockout chips I could use to replace the one in the NES. I have cut a few boards and looked at them just now (was doing something else in them) and I do not see any 3193A or even 3193 (without the A) chips on the board. It is just SMB/Duck Hunt. Any suggestions on what game board I should be looking at for a lockout chip I can harvest without mucking up the famicom adapter would actually be appreciated because if I can avoid it, that is the preferred path of course.

The CICs on the carts are the same ones as in consoles. There's an input pin on the chip which switches between key/lock mode (key = cart, lock = console).

thefox wrote:The CICs on the carts are the same ones as in consoles. There's an input pin on the chip which switches between key/lock mode (key = cart, lock = console).

Ok, so the CIC on this SMB is the same, but is the pinout the same or do I have to kinda rework that situation to fit the NES instead?

K_Devel wrote:It is just SMB/Duck Hunt. Any suggestions on what game board I should be looking at for a lockout chip I can harvest without mucking up the famicom adapter would actually be appreciated

Those combo carts (SMB + Duck Hunt, SMB + Duck Hunt + Track Meet) were often manufactured with glob tops instead of DIP chips, so they're basically good for nothing, but any regular cart will do.

K_Devel wrote:

thefox wrote:The CICs on the carts are the same ones as in consoles. There's an input pin on the chip which switches between key/lock mode (key = cart, lock = console).

Ok, so the CIC on this SMB is the same, but is the pinout the same or do I have to kinda rework that situation to fit the NES instead?

See http://wiki.nesdev.com/w/index.php/CIC_lockout_chip

You also do not need the lockout chip in the NES. The toploader doesn't have one. Only three games (all official Nintendo multicarts) rely on its presence. (Nintendo World Championships—very narrow distribution, Nintendo World Cup/Super Smash V'Ball—US only, Nintendo World Cup/Tetris/SMB—PAL only; all will sometimes fail to go back to the menu when you hit reset)

You should be able to just cut pin 4 on the existing CIC, or if for some reason that doesn't work, there's a few threads here about other workarounds:
* viewtopic.php?p=117410#p117410
* viewtopic.php?p=98891#p98891 (and viewtopic.php?p=99226#p99226 if you have one of the above three multicarts)

EDIT: explained the kind of reliance on CIC RESET OUT

The only advantages I can think of for having a lockout chip in your NES are:

1. You want to demonstrate the lockout chip's function to someone.
2. You are building cartridges, and want to test that your CIC-equivalent is working.
3. You have one of the three cartridges mentioned above. [edit, didn't know about these]

Unless doing one of these things, the lockout chip is purely a disadvantage to have in the machine, IMO.

lidnariq wrote:Nintendo World Cup/Super Smash V'Ball—US only

I have the lockout pin snipped on my toaster NES, I have an NES 2, and I have that cart, and I have never seen it not work?

Asaki wrote:I have the lockout pin snipped on my toaster NES, I have an NES 2, and I have [NWC/SSVB], and I have never seen it not work?

The thing that shouldn't work is that it won't go back to the menu if you hit the reset button after starting NWC.
(Or, at least we know that's true with NWC/SMB/Tetris if you pick anything other than Tetris)

Actually, I'm just doing something silly I suppose, but I wanted to position the lockout chip, pin 4 up and connect it to a switch so it's variable rather than obliterated.

While I understand the appeal, there are two problems:
1- The CIC only checks the status of the pin when power is first turned on or when you press the reset button, so this toggle wouldn't let you switch between "CIC causes the NES to reboot over and over while you fiddle with the connector" and "runs"—you'll still have to hit the reset button or power cycle it.
1b- Really, just go buy a new replacement NES connector.

2- The CIC really doesn't do anything useful, other than the four things I've said (one in this post, the three games in my preceeding post)

lidnariq wrote:While I understand the appeal, there are two problems:
1- The CIC only checks the status of the pin when power is first turned on or when you press the reset button, so this toggle wouldn't let you switch between "CIC causes the NES to reboot over and over while you fiddle with the connector" and "runs"—you'll still have to hit the reset button or power cycle it.
1b- Really, just go buy a new replacement NES connector.

2- The CIC really doesn't do anything useful, other than the four things I've said (one in this post, the three games in my preceeding post)

Really the point wasn't to shut it off midgame or anything but more to add a switch to say, if a game NEEDS the lockout chip.. (does Action 52? I think there are some), that I could flip it on and just put the game in w/ the CIC enabled. I'd mostly leave it disabled but in the event that this removed pin is a problem I was just attempting to make it optional upon boot for such games, no other malarkey. Basically flipping the pin up, connecting a wire and a wire to the board contact, switch connected to the front of the NES and just toggle it based on the games need for it.

K_Devel wrote:Really the point wasn't to shut it off midgame or anything but more to add a switch to say, if a game NEEDS the lockout chip.. (does Action 52? I think there are some), that I could flip it on and just put the game in w/ the CIC enabled. I'd mostly leave it disabled but in the event that this removed pin is a problem I was just attempting to make it optional upon boot for such games, no other malarkey. Basically flipping the pin up, connecting a wire and a wire to the board contact, switch connected to the front of the NES and just toggle it based on the games need for it.

You're more or less talking about installing a switch to play only one cartridge: Nintendo World Cup + Super Spike V'Ball.

Of the other two, one is extremely rare (Nintendo World Championships), and the other is PAL, so they shouldn't really be a factor.