A programming newb wants to start

[Drew Sebastino]

I think I heard that C likes to use a lot of registers at once, which is why it does so much better with the 68000 than the 65816.

NES is a simpler system so maybe it doesn't matter so much there. In SNES though, the learning curve to get started was so damn vertical I'd say it's worth learning a slightly clunkier language just to be able to make use of the tutorials, and hopefully not get immediately scared off. I believe I read bazz's tutorials all the way through at least 50 times, with reference to koitsu's old documents here and there, before I really understood.

The thing that really helped me was the walker demo, because I just tried to keep messing with things in it.

I was extremely close to switching to Genesis, myself.

The small palette is a giant turn off to me. I like the SNES from a hardware perspective more overall.

[Khaz]

I think I heard that C likes to use a lot of registers at once, which is why it does so much better with the 68000 than the 65816.

How the C methods work would depend entirely on the style of the person that wrote them. Genesis C code would no doubt try to make use of all the registers in the name of efficiency, just as you might expect SNES ones to abuse direct page and DMA. They'll never be as fast as raw assembly in either case due to the overhead of generalizing every function to work in every situation, but it should work as well on either platform...

The small palette is a giant turn off to me. I like the SNES from a hardware perspective more overall.

Less colours makes no difference to me, considering what utter trash I am at art. I've seen NES-level graphics that look beautiful, though. It's got much more to do with style than hardware, in my opinion.

True story though, my decision to go with SNES was almost solely due to the controller design. Three buttons is not enough, sorry Sega. And if I still don't own one of their six-button controllers after like 22 years, how could I possibly expect my future players to?

[Drew Sebastino]

Anyone who says they like the standard Genesis controller over the SNES's is crazy. I like how the buttons are laid out to where the tip of your thumb can touch one button and the back of your thumb can touch another, (which is very usefull for runing and jumping in something like DKC or SMW) unlike the Genesis's because of how all three are placed. The Sonic The Hedgehog games where kind of genius in how they used the controller to where you only ever needed one button.

[rainwarrior]

I think I heard that C likes to use a lot of registers at once

A C compiler should use everything it has available to it. If the architecture has a lot of registers, it should use them. An assembly programmer would do the same. More registers or a more complicated CPU means there's more avenues for optimization. This doesn't specifically have anything to do with C.

The main problem with C on the 6502 is just that we don't have a good optimizing compiler for it. CC65 does a somewhat naive translation, and its "optimize" mode mostly just eliminates extremely obvious redundancies in the naive translation. The reason it doesn't have an effective optimizer is just that 6502 development is a tiny niche. CC65 is basically a hobby project. You don't have commercial viability, or the kind of large community it takes to have the programming resources to make a better compiler.

[Khaz]

The Sonic The Hedgehog games where kind of genius in how they used the controller to where you only ever needed one button.

According to some reading I was doing recently, the entire concept and design of the Sonic series was solely based around creating a one-button game. I have no idea why the people at Sega WANTED to do that, but it all follows logically from there. It had to be a platformer to compete with Mario, so that meant the same button had to be both jump AND attack. Hence, the spin-jump.

I don't understand the 'simpler is better' philosophy of game design in general, really. I want a game to challenge the hell out of me in ways that real life doesn't. The less control the player has the fewer opportunities for them to develop skills, show off and be awesome. It worked for Sonic I guess, but Sonic was still a very responsive game even with just one button. You could really feel the physics of your character, unlike Megaman (X) or Castlevania (IV) with their on/off motion.

[Drew Sebastino]

I'm just saying, The Sonic games are the few games on the Genesis where I'm not desperately wishing I had an SNES controller.

About simpler is better, I don't really know. I feel like it depends on what it is, although I generally think there's a sweet spot somewhere when it comes to a lot of things like this. If there's too little, there's simply too little, and if there's too much, it becomes an unorganized mess. Just like in a lot of first person shooter games, I don't want 300 different weapons that all feel the same, I want something like a shotgun and a plasma rifle and a rocket launcher that all feel uniquely different and are better in different situations than others.

[FireballDragon]

May you please change the thread title? I have no idea what a "nice guy" is, so I'd rather not be labeled one.

[tepples]

The owner of the first post in a topic (that's you) can edit its subject.

[FireballDragon]

Ah, cool.

[Pokun]

I highly recommend Nerdy Nights tutorial. It isn't perfect but it's how I got into it. It teaches you everything you need to know to setup your development environment (although it uses NESASM for assembling which isn't very popular here) and help you make your first working NES ROM. You might want to switch to a better assembler later though (I prefer ASM6).

You'll probably need to look up terms and stuff that you are unfamiliar with all the time, especially since you have never programmed before.

[nicklausw]

I highly recommend Nerdy Nights tutorial. It isn't perfect but it's how I got into it. It teaches you everything you need to know to setup your development environment (although it uses NESASM for assembling which isn't very popular here) and help you make your first working NES ROM. You might want to switch to a better assembler later though (I prefer ASM6).

Someone really does need to just go through that tutorial and modify everything to be asm6-compatible. I know, someone (you?) converted the actual files to its syntax, but the tutorials themselves...

[Pokun]

It wasn't me but yes I agree.

[Drew Sebastino]

I think everyone agrees. I really didn't like NES ASM.

[nicklausw]

I think everyone agrees. I really didn't like NES ASM.

Pretty sure someone else who I'm also too lazy to look up the name of made their own improved version of NESASM. Don't remember there being any link to it, though.

[tepples]

Was it called Unofficial MagicKit?