nesdev.org

I know I might get flamed for this, but realistically, it seems like people have made a complete U turn in how they have pictured Satoru Iwata following his death. The thing is though, have people actually come to appreciate what he had done, or is it literally just because he died, at age 55 no less? I just find it funny how one of the most seemingly hated people at Nintendo is now, literally what I've heard from people, is now considered to be "Nintendo's visionary" or a "great inspiration", saying that he brought in a "new era" for the company. (Which admittedly, could be considered good or bad depending the way you look at it.) I'm going to sound like a real a**, (I'm one of the least sympathetic people I know) but just because someone died at age 55 doesn't change their past. I just do wonder if his death actually made people come to realize what he had done, which is great, or if everyone is just afraid to seem like I jerk like I am know because nothing makes me more angry than when people act fake.

I wonder what's going to happen to the "Nintendo NX" thing now that Iwata's gone. I find it strange how it seems that they're trying to push aside the Wii U when they've hyped this game to death: (Sadly, to me, it actually looks fun, and this is coming from someone who's favorite first person shooter is Doom. I'm on this fence if now if I should get a Wii U or not now, but I know it can't be worse that the Xbone that I actually regrettably own.)

Perhaps two reasons that people's perception of a producer can change after the producer's death are 1. they are relieved that a dead person can do no more damage, and 2. there's a cultural taboo against speaking ill of the dead with the exception of violent criminals.

I haven't played Splatoon, as I haven't been convinced that it's worth $400 or that it and Super Smash Bros. For combined are worth $450. (With the failure of things like Virtual Boy and OUYA, with localizations of foreign games getting canceled, and with major console makers getting their act together with respect to security against amateur productions, people have to buy a console based on current titles, not promises of future titles.) But as I understand it, it's a new synthesis of ideas presented in Make Trax (cloned on Famicom as Brush Roller), nonviolent FPS MIDI-Maze (ported to Super NES and Game Boy as Faceball 2000), The Unfinished Swan, and countless CTF FPSes. Luke McKinney of Cracked seems to think it solves the problems of the third-person shooter genre.

tepples wrote:there's a cultural taboo against speaking ill of the dead with the exception of violent criminals.

Yup... I think that mindset is stupid, and I guess I can come off looking like a jerk, but I think people need to get real with themselves.

tepples wrote:I haven't played Splatoon, as I haven't been convinced that it's worth $400

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/nintendo-wi ... /6327118.p (I honestly have plenty of money saved up, as I haven't asked for anything for Christmas in about 5 years. (The Xbone is actually my sister's and she doesn't even play it.) I would get Super Smash Bros too which would be $360, but still, for what it is, I don't think you can beat that. I would just feel like an idiot getting a system that would be replace 1 or 2 years latter though, which is my main concern.)

tepples wrote: Luke McKinney of Cracked seems to think it solves the problems of the third-person shooter genre.

I don't listen to any video game journalism. I's often less reliable than just hearing what a friend thinks about a game. Not saying I necessarily like the game (I haven't picked up my 3DS in ages) but too much water anyone?

tepples wrote:2. there's a cultural taboo against speaking ill of the dead with the exception of violent criminals.

De mortuis nil nisi bonum. That particular taboo dates back before the english language and it makes sense to me. A dead person cannot defend themselves, thus any criticism of them is unfair. I don't believe that they should be forgiven for what crimes they may have committed just because they're dead... but continuing to press the issue would be, shall we say, beating a dead horse.

For now, let people get emotional. Death is hard to think about. People want to believe that, when they die, they too will be forgiven for their indiscretions and remembered fondly. Given that death is basically the worst thing in the universe that can occur to any living thing, I can sympathize with that view. After all. I'm (almost) precisely half the age he was when he died. I've spent a lot of time in the last few days agonizing about how my life is halfway over. It's a horrifying thought. I've done a lot of good things with my life, but unfortunately some bad things too. I hope that when my time comes, people will not write off the good parts because of the bad.

As for Iwata himself, I don't know enough of what he did to judge. It does irk me slightly when I hear people make grandiose statements like "WITHOUT HIM THERE WOULD BE NOTHING", but people are prone to hyperbole at emotional times and I can forgive that.

P.S. I have no current-gen consoles and I have yet to regret that call.

The first I knew about Iwata was through the Iwata Asks articles with very interesting interviews and history of Nintendo.

He'd also appeared in many of Nintendo's promotional statements, like this E3 video with puppets. Doesn't exactly tell you a whole lot about him, but you can tell he had a sense of humour at least.

I've played and loved many of the games he worked on: MobyGames list

In general I've liked a lot of the stuff Nintendo has done in the Wii U era, and I've been kind of excited about the company in a way I hadn't in years.

Splatoon is fantastic, by the way.


What did you dislike about Iwata, and why do you think he seemed like the "most hated" person at Nintendo? Anybody who runs a company has to make choices that anger somebody, of course, but I don't know what you're referring to specifically. You've been incredibly vague about why you think Iwata should be hated, Espozo.

So is Satoru Iwata like Michael Jackson now?

Espozo wrote:I know I might get flamed for this, but realistically, it seems like people have made a complete U turn in how they have pictured Satoru Iwata following his death.

Most likely because people decided to take a quick look at what he did. Also because honestly everybody is aware that the problem is more the executives in general (Nintendo is known to be one of those overly traditional Japanese companies where a single employee disagreeing anywhere can shut down any idea).

EDIT: also this is like the only time I ever saw people get sad over a CEO.

Sik wrote:EDIT: also this is like the only time I ever saw people get sad over a CEO.

Wait until you hear what happened to Steve Jobs, then.

Khaz wrote:As for Iwata himself, I don't know enough of what he did to judge. It does irk me slightly when I hear people make grandiose statements like "WITHOUT HIM THERE WOULD BE NOTHING", but people are prone to hyperbole at emotional times and I can forgive that.

Exactly. That was actually a very good comment, Khaz, not just that part, but the whole thing.

rainwarrior wrote:In general I've liked a lot of the stuff Nintendo has done in the Wii U era, and I've been kind of excited about the company in a way I hadn't in years.

Like the Wii era years? I think that that's what's caused him to get the most flak.

rainwarrior wrote:Splatoon is fantastic, by the way.

That's good to hear. This is the latest shooter since Halo 3 that looks fun to me. I'm probably going to get a Wii U at some point.

rainwarrior wrote:What did you dislike about Iwata, and why do you think he seemed like the "most hated" person at Nintendo?

rainwarrior wrote:You've been incredibly vague about why you think Iwata should be hated, Espozo.

I never said I hated Iwata, but I've seen multiple people who have, claiming that he is directly responsible for Nintendo's supposed "decline".

This is a stupid video, but this is the kind of stuff I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dvFHPl34Mg

psycopathicteen wrote:So is Satoru Iwata like Michael Jackson now?

I guess you could say so.

Sik wrote:Also because honestly everybody is aware that the problem is more the executives in general (Nintendo is known to be one of those overly traditional Japanese companies where a single employee disagreeing anywhere can shut down any idea).

People like to act like a problem solely rests on one person's shoulders for some reason. Just look at about every U.S. president.

Sik wrote:EDIT: also this is like the only time I ever saw people get sad over a CEO.

Well, I guess people cared about Steve Jobs? I honestly could have cared less.

Revenant wrote:

Sik wrote:EDIT: also this is like the only time I ever saw people get sad over a CEO.

Wait until you hear what happened to Steve Jobs, then.

Dang it! you beat me while I was writing it.

Espozo wrote:

rainwarrior wrote:In general I've liked a lot of the stuff Nintendo has done in the Wii U era, and I've been kind of excited about the company in a way I hadn't in years.

Like the Wii era years? I think that that's what's caused him to get the most flak.

I wasn't very intersted in the Wii, and didn't own one.

Espozo wrote:This is a stupid video, but this is the kind of stuff I mean: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1dvFHPl34Mg

This is a stupid video. I don't think anything he says in it is worth responding to.


Anyhow, I already mentioned the things that made me somewhat fond of him. The Iwata Asks interviews in particular are a really special thing.

I could talk about the Wii and what was good and bad about it, but I don't think it's really important. Was Iwata directly responsible for some of the things I didn't like about that system? Probably, but he wasn't responsible for everything. There's a lot more to Nintendo than just him. I'm not an investor in Nintendo. I don't care if their stock rises or falls, if they're selling well or poorly. I only really care about them when they put out games that make me happy, and they've been doing that a lot over the past year or so.

By the way, since the premise of this thread is your accusation that people aren't genuine in their appreciation for Iwata, here's a recent video from the same person that made that a year earlier made the "Iwata should be fired" video that you linked.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRbgeFvBDs8

In contrast, though, I don't think this video is stupid at all. Instead of rambling on, claiming that he knows exactly how to run Nintendo, this one is actually talking about something he knows, his own personal experience and emotions with Iwata's work.

I think both videos seem quite genuine to me, actually. It's possible to feel both good and bad things about the same person, you know.

Espozo, one does not simply gauge public opinion. Just because some people yell loudly about some issue or person in whatever corner of the internet you've nestled yourself in, does not mean that the yelling is indicative of a broader, more general sentiment. Not everybody who has an opinion on a subject necessarily feels the need to express it in every circumstance.

For instance, if you were to ask me last week about my opinion of Mr. Iwata, I probably would have said something like "I have a lot of respect for him." However, since I was never prompted or specifically asked, I never said anything of the sort. After all, business appeared to be running as usual. Conversely, people who take issue with the direction Nintendo has been going are naturally more likely to voice their opinion loudly. Since Iwata was the CEO of the company, he makes of an easy choice of scapegoat for those disgruntled fans (or flat-out trolls).

With Iwata's death, people who appreciated what he did (like me) naturally expressed their condolences and sorrow (particularly because of how premature it was). People who disagreed with him were at least empathetic enough to express their thoughts kindly (as in the video rainwarrior linked to), or immediately shut out by the crowd (as I have seen in a few comment sections). And then people started reading his eulogies, and things only snowballed from there.

RT-55J wrote:Espozo, one does not simply gauge public opinion. Just because some people yell loudly about some issue or person in whatever corner of the internet you've nestled yourself in, does not mean that the yelling is indicative of a broader, more general sentiment.

Am I the only person here who's heard anyone dislike Iwata? Most of the people I've heard who have aren't the most reasonable or respectable people though.

To echo RT-55J, maybe the set of people who hated on Iwata then is disjoint from the set now loving on him, and you've just heard two crowds that speak up in different circumstances. Or are you thinking of specific examples of duplicity by individuals?

Iwata never became a soulless executive who meddled unnecessarily with the company's products. He started out as a regular programmer and designer, and continued to be such as he got higher positions.

All he cared about was making something good, not pandering to market trends or whatever nonsense EA and crew like to do. The game being a good game was front and center. He seemed to genuinely love his craft, and he made it all the way to the top doing so.

That's something I can respect, because I want to be the same.