Where did spc700 samples come from in the first place?

[Drew Sebastino]

You know, is it sad that this sounds better than a good bit of the sound chips they showed off in that video? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7a7-5WYOKxE

And although not done nearly as masterfully, (it's a different person) I'm still glad my favorite doom song was done the same way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmVu_TdPqNQ

[Bregalad]

So the exact same midi track on one computer could sound different on another?

I just took the time to convert the two MIDI files that comes with Windows systems using two different sound sets. The first, OPL-3, simulates the Sound Blaster 16 that we had in old computers. It's only a simulator, so it might sound different from the real thing - and I haven't heard the real thing for 14 years so I don't remember precisely how it sounded - however as far as I can tell it sounds very close to how those MIDIs sounded back then.

passport_opl.ogg

(1.07 MiB) Downloaded 165 times

The second set, Fluid3, is made with high quality instruments, and sounds much better.

passport_fluid3.ogg

(1.12 MiB) Downloaded 174 times

I hope those examples helps you to see the difference between different MIDI synthesisers.

[Bregalad]

Here you are for canyon.mid (the NESdev threads do not allow more than 3 attachments per posts - how smart)

OPL2 (bad quality) :

canyon_opl.ogg

(1.07 MiB) Downloaded 160 times

Fluid3 (good quality) :

canyon_fluid3.ogg

(1.12 MiB) Downloaded 167 times

[tepples]

I'll simplify: It sounds like the difference between Sega Genesis music and Nintendo 64 music.

I don't remember the Sound Blaster having that reverb.

[tomaitheous]

Midi... meh

some OPL3 stuffs..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kAwoSUh3PiM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=09SJ4FckxAw
http://battleofthebits.org/arena/Entry/ ... game/1464/

[Bregalad]

some OPL3 stuffs..

Sound much better than the MIDI OPL3 ! I didn't now that it was possible to use the chip directly rather than through MIDI.

[lidnariq]

The general MIDI patch sets for the FM synthesizer ICs was the worst thing to happen to them :/

[yogi]

The general MIDI patch sets for the FM synthesizer ICs was the worst thing to happen to them :/

Yea FM has it's strengths but it is difficult to design good patches and some timbers just don't work on FM. So back in the dawn of PC gaming, too many game producers just used the SB's midi patch sets ( remember that they were also supporting users that had Roland Tone Generators). The game's sound track supported both the FM midi patches and the external Tone Generator's GM. In that setting FM got the rep as 'nasty'.
But if you listen to music composed for FM, such as a lot of Adlib Tracker ][ stuff, it really shines; this also applies to the MegaDrive titles. Again most of the Sega developers composed FOR the YM2614 rather then just converting a midi file for a lack luster midi patch set.
Even the DX7 has been called 'cheesy' and '80s but again most of the music written on it used the default patches. Only a few artists really dug deep into the Yamaha UI to design their own patches.
Yogi

[mikejmoffitt]

The general MIDI patch sets for the FM synthesizer ICs was the worst thing to happen to them :/

Yea FM has it's strengths but it is difficult to design good patches and some timbers just don't work on FM. So back in the dawn of PC gaming, too many game producers just used the SB's midi patch sets ( remember that they were also supporting users that had Roland Tone Generators). The game's sound track supported both the FM midi patches and the external Tone Generator's GM. In that setting FM got the rep as 'nasty'.
But if you listen to music composed for FM, such as a lot of Adlib Tracker ][ stuff, it really shines; this also applies to the MegaDrive titles. Again most of the Sega developers composed FOR the YM2614 rather then just converting a midi file for a lack luster midi patch set.
Even the DX7 has been called 'cheesy' and '80s but again most of the music written on it used the default patches. Only a few artists really dug deep into the Yamaha UI to design their own patches.
Yogi

Call me crazy, but I picked up a DX7 last year with the intent on learning about FM synth, starting knowing nothing. As I got better at it I've come to really like the Yamaha UI on the keyboard using the data entry slider MUCH more than using a PC and kb/mouse for adjusting operator parameters. One of these days I'm going to create a limited DX7 patch --> YM2612 register set converter, which would obviously only take 4 of the 6 ops and only certain algorithms. For this reason I would like to get a DX100 since it is nearly the same as the YM2612, facilitating conversion.

Imagine that - make some neat instruments on the DX keyboard, strike a few keys and make a YM2612 register dump for the instrument!

[tepples]

Yea FM has it's strengths but it is difficult to design good patches and some timbers just don't work on FM. [...] But if you listen to music composed for FM, such as a lot of Adlib Tracker ][ stuff, it really shines

If someone creates, say, a trumpet patch that "really shines", then couldn't that patch be pasted into the trumpet slot of a General MIDI-ordered patch set?

For this reason I would like to get a DX100 since it is nearly the same as the YM2612, facilitating conversion.

Could you get a TFM Music Maker, which emulates a YM2612, and run that on your computer? I'd like to hear what patches you come up with.

[yogi]

If someone creates, say, a trumpet patch that "really shines", then couldn't that patch be pasted into the trumpet slot of a General MIDI-ordered patch set?

Good question, depends. From the Vogons thread "What did OPL2 cards use before General MIDI?"

The AdLib card came with the Visual Composer program which used instrument definition files called Instrument Banks (links go to the nicely written Videogame Music Preservation Foundation Wiki).

These instrument banks can be found with quite a few games, but of course most of them used other formats like those mentioned above or defined their own instruments by programming the OPL directly. The latter method can produce the most amazing results, but it's not exactly trivial.

http://www.vogons.org/viewtopic.php?t=35843
So I would think it's possible but more of a game by game patching process for the DOS and early Win games. The early FM support was kind of tacked on to game soundtracks that were targeted for the Roland midi systems. So it seems like 'good enough' was the norm regarding FM.

As of Win 3.1, games started using the generic FM driver/patch banks supplied by MS (which wasn't that good to begin with), but it was up to the developer's choice, so still not a standard format.

Changing the midi sound set wasn't a user option till SoundFont samples came along (which was really the end of the GM standard for games). This enabled games to use midi but load their own samples as needed. Gone were the limits of the instrument sets; and this spawned a community of SF designers that's still somewhat active, with SF soft synths and such.

Now a days, there is at least a few people working on FM GM banks (somewhere on Vogons) but not sure if they are aimed at replacing in-game music or more for general use. Most retro gamers want the sound track 'original', warts and all, so there would be some resistance to better sound.

Really, GM is a limiting factor, 128 predefined Instruments; whether they're good or bad, only 128. Where as composing directly for the FM synth allows far greater expression and control.
Wow this is really OT, sorry,
Yogi