SNES games with good graphics

[dougeff]

Apparently, you guys think SMW has lousy graphics.

I'm starting a new thread, cause it's kind of a separate topic...

What SNES games do you think has 'good graphics' or good use of the hardware advantages... bit shading, use of color, quality artistry, etc. ?

Myself, I'm fond of Chrono Trigger and FF3.

[adam_smasher]

Aw jeez. There's honestly like a million, but here are some standouts for me:

Super Metroid
Terranigma
Yoshi's Island (FX2)
Donkey Kong Country 1-3
Seiken Densetsu 3
Tactics Ogre
Kirby's Super Star
Front Mission Gun Hazard

These all happen to be pretty amazing games, too. Sigh, what a console...

[dougeff]

I'll add one more...
Seiken Densetsu 3 (sequel to Secret of Mana never released in US). Oh, you beat me to it, AdamSmasher

[Drew Sebastino]

Apparently, you guys think SMW has lousy graphics.

I thought it was kind of given...

Anyway, here's another one:

[93143]

Super Mario World.

You guys are too used to it, in the context of awesome mid-'90s games and bad hacks. When I first saw it, I had been playing Super Mario Bros. 3 for a year and a half, and other NES games as well, some for even longer. Even though it was on a blurry TV (unfortunate, that; there were three TVs at that party, and the Super Famicom just had to be hooked up to the one that didn't work properly), it looked genuinely, breathtakingly beautiful in a way NES games simply couldn't. A lot of this was due not only to the sudden freedom of the SNES colour palette but to the heavily stylized parallax backgrounds - a blue sky with the odd bush is all very well, but take a look at the background of Yoshi's Island 1, or a cave level, or a mountain level, and really try to see it for the first time... The sheer scope implicit in those simple backgrounds is almost unmatched in my experience. (The underground bits are helped further by one of the best uses of reverb I've heard on the system.)

The use or otherwise of black outlines seems to have a sort of artistic logic to it; look at the Koopa Troopas. Blargg is a good example; he doesn't just appear against black backgrounds, but did you really think it was a good idea to outline a lava monster in black? Dude's glowing. Same goes for Spark and Podoboo. Bowser and the Koopalings do tend to show up against mostly black backgrounds, and the ones that don't have black outlines...

The pale colours are a result of the 'pastel' craze that was going on at the time. I think it looks fine; it's part of the style. (Also, Luigi has purple overalls...) The graphics are a bit simplistic, and it's clearly a fairly early game, but it is not ugly. Quite the opposite. I've seen ugly graphics, and these are not that.

Okay, Mario's sprite is drawn a little weirdly...

But other than that, considering the development situation, I think they used the resources they knew they could count on quite well. Technically, it's enough of a step up to show the power of the new system, but not so much as to leave no room for improvement, or waste development time (and ROM) trying to reach DKC2 levels of graphical mojo in one giant leap. Artistically, it seems to have a sort of magic that a more literal-minded attempt would have lost - even Yoshi's Island, while it is definitely more sophisticated, seems a bit hamfistedly cartoonish compared to it. Maybe I'm just nostalgic... it was my first SNES experience, after all, even before F-Zero...

Also, Super R-Type looks at least as good as R-Type III (in screenshots)...

[Drew Sebastino]

You guys are too used to it

Well, I mean, we're judging how it looks given the hardware, not at the time, unless the hardware actually changed.

I think it looks fine; it's part of the style.

I mean, it's good for the style to be consistent, but only if the style was good in the first place. I'm not saying that this style was bad, although I'm not to big a fan of it.

(Blargg doesn't count; he doesn't just appear against black backgrounds, but did you really think it was a good idea to outline a lava monster in black? Dude's glowing. Same goes for Spark and Podoboo.)

They couldn't have outlined the teeth?

I just outlined it now, and I already think it looks better. I'd do more stuff to it though.

Outline.png (648 Bytes) Viewed 4777 times

The use or otherwise of black outlines seems to have a sort of artistic logic to it

Speaking about consistency though, it's often wrong even here, because some objects are outlined in their darkest shade, while others are just solid black, and the objects really aren't different in terms of lighting.

Maybe I'm just nostalgic... it was my first SNES experience, after all

That's probably a good part of it.

even before F-Zero...

I take it you're a pretty big F-Zero fan?

Super R-Type looks at least as good as R-Type III

I'd say more like at most. It doesn't have as much going on in a good part of it and mostly, the artwork isn't quite as good in my opinion. I don't know why both games are so adverse from using BG 3, unless they're trying to recapture the M72 "feel". (Although there wouldn't be have the stuff there is then in R-Type III.)

The mega wavebeam looks awesome to me.

[Shonumi]

Adding to the list, in my opinion, these games all had great artwork:

Megaman 7
Megaman & Bass (Rockman & Forte)
Kirby's Dream Land 3
Super Mario RPG

[Revenant]

Hong Kong 97.

[mic_]

Demon's Crest / Demon's Blazon:



Wild Guns:



Super Ghouls 'n Ghosts:



Dracula XX:


Operation Logic Bomb:



Some other mentions: Final Fantasy VI, Magical Quest Starring Mickey Mouse, Rendering Ranger R2, Yoshi's Island, Hagane.

[93143]

Hong Kong 97.

I'm serious. Super Mario World may not have the technical virtuosity and detail level of later (and larger) games, but it has its own artistic style that I find quite appealing. And the OP does mention "artistry". While the graphics are often simple, they are almost never bad, the feel is consistent (except maybe with Dino-Rhino) and the whole thing hangs together to create the impression of an expansive world populated with diverse enemies.

In some ways it works better than more detailed graphics might have. For instance, with super high detail and smooth animation like in DKC, palette swaps stick out like sore thumbs. And SMW's caves are easily the largest, most airy caverns I've ever played in, not because of the level design but because of the graphics (and that epic reverb) - it lets me actually believe in the scale of the inside of Vanilla Dome. (The shiny bits are also something missing from DKC's fancy but painfully static (and obviously mirrored) cave backgrounds.) It's a bit like how Super Mario 64 somehow seems more present and real than many later and technically superior games...

Compare any environment in SMW with a similar one in FFIV (if you can manage to straddle that artistic chasm; the styles are very different) and tell me seriously that SMW has bad graphics. Stylized, yes. Artificially limited, even. But not bad.

I was a bit disappointed with Super Mario All-Stars, because of the sometimes tone-deaf graphical conversion. (And because they botched the Goomba stomp sound, not to mention the awful bonus round music... The buzzy small-room reverb in caves is kinda acceptable, because caves on the NES tended to feel quite cozy, but it's still not great...)

unless the hardware actually changed.

It did, and not just during the development of the actual game (which I think might have started when the system still had 8 KB of WRAM). SMW is 4 Mbit SlowROM. DKC is 32 Mbit FastROM. Yoshi's Island is 16 Mbit SlowROM with a Super FX chip.

They couldn't have outlined the teeth?

I don't actually like what you've done there. Not really sure why, but it seems to clash with the feel of a SMW lava cave... now that I think about it, the Piranha plants also kinda seem to clash with that feel, though the Chucks don't (both are outlined in black)...

Speaking about consistency though, it's often wrong even here, because some objects are outlined in their darkest shade, while others are just solid black, and the objects really aren't different in terms of lighting.

It's not lighting; it's stuff like hard/soft, serious/cartoony, what exactly happens when you jump on it, that sort of thing. It may not be perfectly consistent, but it's not totally random. I maintain that the Koopa Troopa is a great example of both outlining techniques used in a consistent and artistic fashion in a single sprite.

I take it you're a pretty big F-Zero fan?

Yep. I was really good at the original (2nd on Death Wind I/Golden Fox/Master), and pretty good at X, Maximum Velocity, and GX. (Maximum Velocity is a lot like the original, but you can use the shoulder buttons in new ways. I learned how to drag a vehicle around a tight curve with them without noticing what I was doing, and when I figured out how it worked, I couldn't do it any more. I had to learn it all over again before I could get the Jet Vermilion around a hairpin like I'd used to...) GP Legend was a bit disappointing; it felt too loose and easy, like it was rewarding me for just playing...

I understand the desire to make back a game's development budget and all, but I really wish Nintendo would make a new F-Zero. It's been too long.

Then again, I haven't wholeheartedly loved a new Mario Kart since Super Circuit... the only thing worse than not getting a new F-Zero would be getting a bad F-Zero...

[dougeff]

Maybe I'll start another argument, but...I've never liked Mario64. (To be fair, I didn't own an N64, and I've only played it a few times). But gameplay is slow and awkward, and at times confusing. It tries to say "ooh, look, I'm in 3D"... but when it takes you 10 minutes to climb a hill or swim around in a circle, I get bored.

Plus, it's got alot of technical flaws/glitches.
https://youtu.be/5YbtkoOgmcs

Give me an SNES with SMW any day, and I'll have fun. That and Link to the Past are 2 of my favorite games of all time.

[darryl.revok]

Tales of Phantasia is gorgeous.

I want to make the point, that the SNES in GENERAL looks goods. The system has a very appealing aesthetic and had a very high quality of art. Even when I think of games that I didn't like, they still look good. In fact, one of the worst examples graphic-wise I can think of happens to be my favorite title for the system, Earthbound. And it's aesthetic, I feel, is perfect for what it is, as it's unassuming nature disarms the player and ultimately delivers, in my opinion, a more personal emotional journey than other RPGs for the system, which I also love.

The SNES has a look that holds up graphically in a way that arguably no other console does. Later consoles from the 3d era date quickly, and earlier console graphics are too primitive abstractions for a lot of gamers who didn't grow up with them. NES, SMS, TG16, SNES, and Genesis all straddle this line, but I feel that the SNES stands on top visually, by a pretty decent margin. Neo Geo, I'm not even considering as a home console.

The point, in context of game library, that it's hard to pick out a truly BAD looking game on the console, and that's amazing. Super Mario World looks great, and it may be on the lower end of the spectrum. I'll admit in contrast to some better looking games for the console it may be repetitive and simple, and I do honestly prefer SMB3, however, it looks good. Bright, colorful, and fun.

[mic_]

it's hard to pick out a truly BAD looking game on the console

I give you Barbie Super Model:

[darryl.revok]

Hmm... That appears to be a high quality rendering of Barbie driving in front of a Hollywood set of a city. No other console could render buildings with so much flatness. Looks great!

For real though, it's colorful. Okay, it's god awful. You really have to see it in motion to see how great that car looks. The body says in a straight horizontal line while the front and back turn independently. I'm not sure who the manufacturer was, but I think it came out of the same assembly plant as this one:



So now that we've seen this, how's Super Mario World lookin' now?

[adam_smasher]

Tales of Phantasia is gorgeous.

Oooh, Star Ocean, too.