I don't believe I lean toward one side or the other in this debate on this topic. In fact, I don't know if the topic really should elicit a debate rather than a discussion. However, I believe I can understand why some people would take a defensive stance from the way it's been presented. This is a hobby for everyone here as far as I know. As such, people are working on actualizing their own visions and creating their own contribution. For better or worse, this gives the hobbyist creative autonomy over what choices go into their work. The suggestion that someone should introduce a certain decision making process into their creativity is a suggestion of removing a certain bit of that creative autonomy.
It may seem petty to be offended at the suggestion; that a person should shrug it off if they don't accept the suggestion, but I don't think that would be a particularly empathetic way of looking at it. I believe there are valid reasons a person might have that response. Especially if they've already put a lot of effort into their craft.
If the theory is that reiterating sexist stereotypes reinforces the suggestion that those are the appropriate norms, then I believe it would stand to reason that reiterating a position that one should introduce a certain thought process into their creativity would reinforce the image that a person should be doing these things in order to meet approval.
At that point a person would be making their game to satisfy external opinions rather than their own.
M_Tee wrote:...if a creator wants to make a quality product, then they need to make each decision consciously and for a reason, whatever reason that may be.
(I've read through all of the posts as they've been made and skimmed through the whole thread a few times while writing and I'm not sure exactly what rainwarrior quote you're paraphrasing. I do tend to believe this reflects more of your personal opinion than an actual statement rainwarrior said but please correct me if I'm wrong.)
I like to attempt to avoid using statements that connote objectivity unless I truly believe the statement is not influenced by my own opinion. In this thread, it's been stated that at least one person does not like to put much conscious efforts into their creative choices. I'd also say that this person has released what appears to me, from previews, to be the most polished, professional looking, completed NES homebrew yet. (eagerly awaiting my copy) I'd also corroborate that I like to work heavily from intuition for nearly any creative process. Even coding. I take an approach where I like to apply analytical review later. Because I didn't think too hard about doing it the first time, sometimes I'll do something in a way contrary to conventions, and in the process, learn a new method. It's less constraining, I believe, to think less and have more fun when you're creating the bulk of a work, and naturally you'll analyze things more over the creative process as you review your work a million times.
Also, from my perspective, It's hard for me to find the emotional base for a work, my personal connection, the driving force behind anything I want to create, through a method other than intuition. My game concepts come more from nights spent on a couch with friends up all hours lit by the glow of the CRT with controllers in our hands, rather than from time spent applying a disciplined process to my ideas and considerations of their place in modern society. But that's solely my process. There are plenty of people who have a more organized approach than I, and most likely have more classical training.
I don't
think that my perspective on the matter of diversity in NES games and in general is
too different from yours, but I would have to make a lot of changes to make a statement like the one that I pasted. This is what I would say have to say personally, if this was my opinion:
example wrote:...I believe that in order to create the strongest work possible, then an artist should be conscious of the reasoning behind all creative decisions made.
As this thread has progressed, language has escalated to make assertions that we have certain external responsibilities in the creation of our games.
M_Tee wrote:As creators of globally-spread media, like it or not, we have a responsibility in the material that we produce. We pretty much have three choices: intentionally spite that responsibility (those that do this are loud enough about it that I feel it doesn't even warrant further discussion), ignore it (default to white male, perpetuate tropes, etc.), or take it into consideration (and likely produce more inclusive, and more unique, products while doing so).
I don't feel this statement is objective. Does a person doing a hobby for their own personal enjoyment have an actual external responsibility which must be fulfilled? The implication that they do denotes negative consequences for not fulfilling this responsibility. Also, it seems to me that you're saying that the perspectives of those who oppose your decision don't warrant discussion.
I don't feel that the topic is the issue but rather the way it's approached. If someone made a statement that as NES developers we have the responsibility to create games that meet some technical criteria, I would believe the statement would be met with equally oppositional sentiment. It is kind of insulting, I feel, to directly impose your own sense of moral responsibility upon others.
I feel I have a right to speak in this matter because I'm the only one who was specifically called out for not having diversity in my game project. In fact, one of my game decisions reflecting upon diversity was called, "uninspired for lack of a better word." There seemed to be an asserted sentiment that I am "copying" Contra, and that I had not considered making my game different from my inspiration. I never once used the words copy or clone in my posts. In fact, I said:
darryl.revok wrote:The game is intended to take inspiration from, and parody Konami's Contra, while at the same time bringing its own approach to the genre.
so to receive in response to my decision not to modify my character to a different ethnicity, this:
M_Tee wrote:As in, "Okay, I'm copying Contra, but how will mine be different? Why should people want to play mine instead of Contra?" could be valid thoughts to have during development.
was, in my opinion, not valid criticism. I'm a fan of your art, but that, and being called uninspired was, in my opinion, mildly insulting.
I posted earlier in the thread, an anecdote about a forum member who previously sought an NES game with a female protagonist, but quickly dismissed any existing games as not meeting his standards. So he then proceeded to develop this game and it is, as far as I can see, nearing completion. He didn't, as far as I know, seek to impose his vision or his criteria upon any existing projects. He set off to make the game himself.
I believe the most tactful way for a person to go about making this point, would be to begin a good game project which features diversity. Then post their work, and say that they made a lot of decisions to reflect diversity because this is important in our modern society. I don't see how anyone could take offense at a statement of diversity being important to the author. If others like and respect the work, they'll be consciously and subconsciously influenced in favor of diversity by the experience.