nesdev.org

Espozo wrote:Well, what you described is how most games handle it, although now thinking about it, there are plenty that don't although less.

Well how about this. If you had two playable characters that didn't control differently, and had a palette swap for race, how would you choose (for an NES game)? Typically, if the characters are the same, they're assigned to player number. In this instance, one race would be unplayable for single player. Do you dedicate graphics and code (which may be limited) to a player selection screen? Would a player feel cheated to put in the extra effort of selection only to find that it makes no difference to the way the game is played?

darryl.revok wrote:Would a player feel cheated to put in the extra effort of selection only to find that it makes no difference to the way the game is played?

Having an optional reskin is a reward in itself. If it's a meaningful gameplay difference too, that's a bonus, but a different appearance is a nice addition all on its own. (Why on earth wouldn't it be?)

WTF do you mean by "extra effort of selection"?

Once, I was so indecisive as to which character I wanted to choose in Super Monkey Ball that I stood there for 3 hours!!!

rainwarrior wrote:WTF do you mean by "extra effort of selection"?

I didn't say anything about the quantity of effort, but if there's a screen that asks what character you want, and you pick one, that's making a decision. I'm just saying, don't you think that would lead to expectations of the characters having different mechanics? It's not common in the games I'm used to seeing to have different selectable "costumes". I'm not saying it doesn't happen, as Metroid obviously comes to mind, but it wasn't common. If you're picking out a Turtle, you're at least picking their weapon. With Mario 2, you've got jump height and speed and various mechanics.

Let's take the racial context out of it because that's not important. Let's just say you had to choose between two people with differently colored hats, and that was the only difference, do you think creating the choice would lead to expectations of it being more significant than it is?

The reason that I asked this is because it's a legitimate question that I asked myself long before the racial question even came up. I have two characters with different names and even a single varying head sprite. However, I don't want them to play any differently. I considered if I should make the character selectable, but considered that to be a waste of cart space, and my effort in adding that feature, only to present the character with a largely insignificant choice.

I was curious to see what answers you guys would suggest. (or just make fun of me ) I considered making the characters tied to controllers, yet allowing someone to play single player from the second controller. This seemed to solve all of the issues.

By this logic Rampage having 3 characters instead of 1 was a mistake. ???

I don't really think this is an argument worth pursuing, honestly. I've already stated my opinion on the matter, but to reiterate: even just reskins are generally good and appreciated by the player.

Espozo wrote:Once, I was so indecisive as to which character I wanted to choose in Super Monkey Ball that I stood there for 3 hours!!!

I stole your quote for my signature.

rainwarrior wrote:I don't really think this is an argument worth pursuing, honestly.

I really didn't think it was an argument. I just posed a question. The default for an NES game is to assign the second-billed character to the second player. I don't entirely understand the sentiment.

But I would like to retract the question. I'll agree it's definitely not worth an argument.

Maybe I didn't understand what you were trying to suggest. If the question was "would you find it bad if Run 'n' Gun had a character select instead of just locked to a controller", I'd say either decision has its merits. My instinct is that I'd probably leave it controller locked, but allow the game to be played solo using controller 2 if desired.

There are at least a few for NES that do reskin choice not tied to player-number.
Rattle or Roll?
Mick or Mack?

rainwarrior wrote:If the question was ...Run 'n' Gun...

No. I don't really want to talk about my game. The question was simply about the decisions involved in designing player selection and whether or not these decisions are influenced when having varying race between the characters. I was hoping to steer the topic to the direction of productive NES development conversation, but ultimately, I don't really care.

Myask wrote:There are at least a few for NES that do reskin choice not tied to player-number.

SCAT


If there's one thing this whole experience has taught me, it's that if something you're doing is important to you, don't talk about it publicly on the internet.

Punch wrote:I stole your quote for my signature.

I'm here all night.

I did think of a run and gun game that isn't controller locked, and that's Metal Slug 2 and onward. I always found this kind of dumb though, like I care who I choose.

Some people probably do though... (I think you guys can handle it)



It's kind of funny though, in some games where the characters are supposedly the same, there's sometimes one who is favorited over the other for little reasons, like in Super Monkey Ball, I always choose Baby because he/she is the smallest, which gives you a better view of the floor and is virtually the only way to beat Master 9.

darryl.revok wrote:If there's one thing this whole experience has taught me, it's that if something you're doing is important to you, don't talk about it publicly on the internet.

Oh please...

Espozo wrote:Oh please...

Oh I'm not going to stop making my game, but I've had plenty enough public opinions on the matter.

I've got quite a bit of heavy shit that I deal with on a daily basis. This is a hobby that I do because I enjoy it, because it reconnects me with my childhood, because the challenge of coding and game design is difficult enough that it can block out some of those negative thoughts for a while and let me focus on something which I like.

There's no reason I can't enjoy the solitary process of game design. I used to enjoy talking about games, even debating issues on the topic. It's got to the point though, that doing so is an unpleasant experience which introduces negativity into my life.

If any one of you were accused of being a racist/sexist, I promise you it's going to take some of the childlike enjoyment out of your hobby. It's an intimidating thing today to be publicly pressured to modify your project, against your wishes, for the sake of diversity. Even if you don't think you've done anything wrong. Anyone who says it's not intimidating is full of shit.



Some mod, please lock this fucking thread. It should have been done pages ago.

So, I heard that they're making these new small nuclear reactors, called SMRs, that are said to be much safer in that they don't get hot enough to cause a nuclear meltdown. However, to create the same amount of electricity, you need more of them, but the security around them shouldn't be as severe.

Here you go (patches over "Contra (J).nes" from GoodNES)

Thread solved, now you guys can let darryl.revok be

Those black guys on the left are really oiled up.

Also, one of them should be a wheelchair-bound, deaf, transgender Asian woman. Can you handle that?