I'm now windows free, now checking for tools

[Banshaku]

I have been testing xubuntu for a few weeks and now that I can connect to the internet without issue and uses most of my program either with some replacement on linux or through wine, I finally decided remove my last windows partition. I'm now using that remaining space as a playground for freebsd (I like their philosophy and want to know more about it). I need to find if I can use pppconfig under freebsd but I guess there must be some version for sure.

Except for a few quirk here and there it's getting quite smooth. The only trace of windows is some old ntfs partitions that I keep as-is for now and a few vm for some rare occasion were some old programs would be required.

Now my next goal will be how to replace some of the tool I made either in .net or other tools I was using for doing some nesdev. Didn't do for a while but I hope I can restart with some experimentation someday.

For people on unix platform, what are the most common tools when developping nes related project? It can be a favorite ide, graphic editor or some other tools. I'm interested to find what people are using these days.

[tepples]

I also use Xubuntu. For a graphic editor, I use GIMP combined with tile conversion tools that I wrote in Python.

The version of FCEUX in Ubuntu's repository is old. I compiled FCEUX SDL from SVN so that things like NES 2.0 headers work. For step debugging, I use FCEUX in Wine, though I will often drop a 4-digit hex display (whether as sprites or as background) into the program to reduce the pressing need for that. (This is the "c0de" in debug builds of Thwaite and RHDE.)

What is it with Linux desktop environments having names that resemble those of low-level game-related software? First it was Xfce and FCEUX, then it was Unity and Unity...

[lidnariq]

For your .NET programs, look into mono. If you're not using any native assemblies, they may even Just Work.

For what nesdev I've done, I mostly end up using mtpaint, gimp, and my own netpbm-friendly tools.

[zzo38]

I don't use any desktop environment, and just open multiple xterms to work on command-line. The NES/Famicom emulator in the package manager is Mednafen, although I would hope to have a better one. For graphics, I have written Farbfeld Utilities; the bitff and ffbit commands, as well as ff-strip, can be used to convert the pictures into the format you will need. However, NESASM also supports inline tiles using 0 1 2 3 to indicate which colours to use, so you do not necessarily need an external program for graphics.

[mikejmoffitt]

I use vim for text editing, and I have a very simple makefile and linker script for my ca65 project. For emulation, I have native Nestopia, FCEUX, and Mednafen installed, while for debugging I run the Windows release of FCEUXD in Wine. For the latter, I have a tools/ directory in my project, and it's a development artifact I commit so when I pull the project the `make debug' target "just works".

For graphics, I run yy-chr (C++ version) in Wine, which works perfectly, and sometimes Tile Molester (what a name...) which is written in Java so I can run it on openjdk-jre.

Famitracker runs acceptably in Wine.

With all of the above, that's all I need for NES Development. I work under Debian Testing, which is not dissimilar to what Ubuntu offers.

My desktop environment is a spartan Openbox configuration, with multiple XTerms opened.

[lidnariq]

What about cpow's MFC-to-QT library adapter build of FamiTracker?

[Bregalad]

I have been testing xubuntu for a few weeks and now that I can connect to the internet without issue

Wow, it take you a few week to be able to connect to the internet without issues ? With archlinux you just have to edit one file, and although I fully admit it's troublesome, it never took me more than one hour to figure it out.

You are an adult and do what you want in your life, but if you plan to seriously use linux as a working OS, I strongly discourage the use of Ubuntu. This distribution is intended for newbies or windows-commers which wants to try linux out, and for that particular purpose, it's great. However, if you really want to work with Linux, use another one. I don't have any preference, anything else than ubuntu should be fine. Personally I like arch linux, but if you want to keep the APT package manager I'll suggest Debian (the real Debian is most certainly a lot better than Ubuntu which is only based on Debian).

For instance if you install Debian, and pick XFCE as a desktop environement, it'll look and feel the same as a Xubuntu install, but in the long run will be a lot more stable and robust.

I use vim for text editing, and I have a very simple makefile and linker script for my ca65 project. For emulation, I have native Nestopia, FCEUX, and Mednafen installed, while for debugging I run the Windows release of FCEUXD in Wine. For the latter, I have a tools/ directory in my project, and it's a development artifact I commit so when I pull the project the `make debug' target "just works".

For graphics, I run yy-chr (C++ version) in Wine, which works perfectly, and sometimes Tile Molester (what a name...) which is written in Java so I can run it on openjdk-jre.

Famitracker runs acceptably in Wine.

Nothin personal, but the fact you rely that much about wine says everything about how appropriate it is to do NES development under Linux... I'm just as sad as you guys are of this situation, but if all tools are Windows based, it sounds like a lot less hassle to keep a windows session, even if it is JUST for NES developement. If Wine runs great for you that's aweseome, but personally I've often had bad experiences with it and had it completely bug my system. Perhaps it was because it was under Ubuntu, though

For a graphic editor, I use GIMP combined with tile conversion tools that I wrote in Python.

I admire you so much that you are able to do anything with GIMP. For me, that program is extremely hard/counter-intuitive to use. I need to pick it up and invest some serious time in it I guess, it'll eventually pay of.

[koitsu]

I admire you so much that you are able to do anything with GIMP. For me, that program is extremely hard/counter-intuitive to use. I need to pick it up and invest some serious time in it I guess, it'll eventually pay of.

Just want you to know you're not the only one who feels that way. I've used GIMP (on Windows, and one time on a VM running Ubuntu Desktop) several times, and almost every single aspect of the UI and general program behaviour feels like it was done oddly solely to keep Adobe from suing them (I know this isn't the case, but it often feels like it). It's almost to the point where getting WINE working just so you can try/run some Windows-based graphics editors is worth the effort, you know? Heck, even xpaint felt better at times (last time I tried that was back in 1994 or something like that). I found this list while Googling.

But you know what I use most times, even on Windows? Pixlr Editor. Yeah, all you need is a web browser, and it feels a lot more like Photoshop than GIMP does. (It's still lacking in several areas, but the overall feel, IMO, is better than GIMP)

[Sik]

If we talk about editors geared towards pixelart and Wine is an option, I'd rather take GraphicsGale (and if you can live without animated GIFs, the free version will do just fine). The biggest issue (for some) is that it's proprietary, and also honestly Wine is a slowhog (GraphicsGale on real Windows is actually extremely lean). Sadly I honestly haven't found anything better in my opinion, and that's even ignoring platform and licensing =/

For small sprites mtPaint may be an acceptable (though not better) alternative. That's what I used for the astronaut sprites. Actually it's decent enough for me to make this background with it:

[Kasumi]

Aseprite is a good multiplatform graphics tool. Free to use if you can compile it, paying is only for the convenience of a binary.

[tepples]

Nothin personal, but the fact you rely that much about wine says everything about how appropriate it is to do NES development under Linux... I'm just as sad as you guys are of this situation, but if all tools are Windows based, it sounds like a lot less hassle to keep a windows session, even if it is JUST for NES developement.

Do you mean in VirtualBox (which requires twice the RAM compared to Wine) or dual boot (which interrupts music, IM and IRC sessions, and other long-running background processes)?

If Wine runs great for you that's aweseome, but personally I've often had bad experiences with it and had it completely bug my system. Perhaps it was because it was under Ubuntu, though

Wine under Xubuntu has given me none of these problems. To me, Wine has felt like just another toolkit, like Qt or GTK+.

For a graphic editor, I use GIMP combined with tile conversion tools that I wrote in Python.

I admire you so much that you are able to do anything with GIMP. For me, that program is extremely hard/counter-intuitive to use.

The first things to do are to set the default brush to 1px, the default grid to 8px, and here's the big one: single window mode. Then open a new topic to bitch about GIMP so I can teach you how to tame it.

[Banshaku]

@everyone

A lot of interesting comments regarding some editors/tools used, plenty of them that I didn't know. I will investigate them once I find the time. As for .net, some of my files do works with mono or inside a VM as a last resort.

It seems I will still have to use some tools with wine but I don't mind, I saw no performance impact for nintendulator, famitracker (just adjust sound buffer then fine) and a few other tools.

I read all your comments and will write in details soon once I test the programs. thanks!

Wow, it take you a few week to be able to connect to the internet without issues ? With archlinux you just have to edit one file, and although I fully admit it's troublesome, it never took me more than one hour to figure it out.

Configuring an Ethernet adapter on a network with a static ip or dhcp by hand doesn't take much time but in my case I have an very old 3G dongle (easily 6 years+ old) which the provider only support drivers for windows or mac 1.6.8. Add to that is it a OEM for a Huawei modem without the part number, only sold in Japan, nobody talks about that model on English forums and Japanese ones have little to no information and it dates from Fedora 13 (we are at 24 right now) and that make it quite hard to configure it or figure it out. To add insult to injury the NetworkManager detects it, allows to select the appropriate Japanese provider and all the details but fails to dial with the message "error" (yes, only error only in logs files) and you are now on your own to figure out how to make it works. That doesn't include the fact that I usually have only at night after work, taking care of kids and house chores and now you have to figure it out at 12h+ at night, so not much time to investigate while you are already tired from work.

So there is more than just "not being able to configure it properly" to factor, other things are there too. What takes a few hours for someone at night will take me days or weeks to do because of lack of time. Having a family takes a lot of your time. So I'm very grateful that Rahsennor redirected to pppconfig since it was able to make the proper script for my modem and now it works flawless.

You are an adult and do what you want in your life, but if you plan to seriously use linux as a working OS, I strongly discourage the use of Ubuntu. This distribution is intended for newbies or windows-commers which wants to try linux out, and for that particular purpose, it's great. However, if you really want to work with Linux, use another one. I don't have any preference, anything else than ubuntu should be fine. Personally I like arch linux, but if you want to keep the APT package manager I'll suggest Debian (the real Debian is most certainly a lot better than Ubuntu which is only based on Debian).

I never intended to use Ubuntu since I was again't it if you read in my former thread about compromises about linux. I started with Fedora but the RPM manager was a pain to install things because of dependencies. Then I went to Debian 8.4 with the DVD distribution but I never was able to install it since it fails on some python package on my computer even thought my DVD hash were fine (I could test it again, just in case). I tried a last resort with the Debian XFCE live which installed properly but failed to install grub no mater what (it seems to be a known issue that the live CD are "flacky"...). So I decided to put Debian on hold for that reason. I could have used Mint since I knew it worked but it's basically Ubuntu with extra things so not interested. I was in the middle of installing FreeBSD but I still have a lot of issue with it so put it on hold too. As a last resort I just let go of my gripes with Ubuntu and installed Xubuntu and now everything works. Not what I wanted but it works for now. Windows is gone, which was my first intention.

Now that I have a working linux and most of my tools are working and now that I have a script that gives me the information on my modem I can now investigate other distribution. If possible I want to try FreeBSD, Debian (one more time) or Arch linux. It's just a compromise while I install something that I like.

My FreeBSD works if I share the network from another computer but a lot of settings are still raw. For now I can live with Xubuntu until I figure it out.

As for your comment about wine, a lot of tools works fine with it. Maybe you were not lucky, I think.

I need to go back to my house chore so I will answer in another message later.

[tepples]

As for .net, some of my files do works with mono

With the exception of YY-CHR (.NET version), which uses backslashes in hardcoded paths.

or inside a VM

Which means a separate operating system that you'll need to keep licensed, updated, and secured. Recent versions of Windows in particular send a list of all apps and drivers on each PC to Microsoft, which opens it up to subpoena by a particularly litigious copyright or patent holder on a fishing expedition. "Can you get me a list of everyone with a Kazzo? I have a court order."

Configuring an Ethernet adapter on a network with a static ip or dhcp by hand doesn't take much time but in my case I have an very old 3G dongle (easily 6 years+ old) which the provider only support drivers for windows or mac 1.6.8.

I can see two reasons that old 3G adapters get less love from developers of drivers and GUI configuration tools. One is that most people who depend on cellular Internet use a gateway that acts as a Wi-Fi AP, such as a MiFi or a smartphone with tethering. Another is that cellular Internet adapters may not be as willing to work with the maintainers of Linux networking as makers of adapters for wired Ethernet and Wi-Fi. But I'm glad you got it working.

[freem]

As for .net, some of my files do works with mono

With the exception of YY-CHR (.NET version), which uses backslashes in hardcoded paths.

You need to update your WINE and/or Mono, because it's working these days (picture linked because 1400x1050)

[Banshaku]

Since there was some new messages between my chores I will continue in a new one.

@Tepples

Regarding FCEUX, understood, I will try to compile it but if you use the one in wine, why do you need the one for linux? What is the difference? I know there are many different version FCEUX but don't remember much about it.

@lidnariq

My old editor does work with mono but the code is so old and I don't remember much so it's quite a pain. I think I want to remake one someday, maybe with wxWidgets and just target what I need and be less ambitious since now time is the main issue.

As for mtPaint, I will give it a try. As for " netpbm-friendly tools" I'm not sure what it is (pgm) but I will check the source code! I like reading source code.

@zzo38

How useful is Mednafen for coding? I knew the name but never had a chance to give it a try. As for the tools, got it, will check them.

@mikejmoffitt

I'm still not used to vim, don't have time to study all the shortcut so my usage is quite basic. My make files for ca65 should be easily ported to linux (did before on Mac so should work on linux).

Got it for yy-chr but what are your issues with Famitracker? Last time I tried (briefly) it seemed to work normally after adjusting the sound buffer?

@Bregalad / koitsu

Never get used to Gimp, feel so unnatural unless you learn the "gimp way". I prefer basic tools like Deluxe Paint/animation (I gave hints about my age, oh no! )

@Sik

That background looks great, like it a lot! Heard about GraphicsGale, will try it.

@Kasumi

Never heard of Aseprite, will give it a spin!

With the exception of YY-CHR (.NET version), which uses backslashes in hardcoded paths.

freem mentioned that is not an issue anymore. Good to know!

Which means a separate operating system that you'll need to keep licensed, updated, and secured. Recent versions of Windows in particular send a list of all apps and drivers on each PC to Microsoft, which opens it up to subpoena by a particularly litigious copyright or patent holder on a fishing expedition. "Can you get me a list of everyone with a Kazzo? I have a court order."

Unless you run windows 2000/XP with a disabled network adapter and never access the net to avoid security issue and use only the software your trust since a long time. To my knowledge I don't think they back ported telemetry up to 2000, yet! I have some license so it's not an issue.

I can see two reasons that old 3G adapters get less love from developers of drivers and GUI configuration tools. One is that most people who depend on cellular Internet use a gateway that acts as a Wi-Fi AP, such as a MiFi or a smartphone with tethering. Another is that cellular Internet adapters may not be as willing to work with the maintainers of Linux networking as makers of adapters for wired Ethernet and Wi-Fi. But I'm glad you got it working.

[/quote]

3G dongles are something that were popular a long time ago. Now all the "hip kids" have their LTE routers. They are supported in general in most linux distribution (if you know the model), it just that I have an oddball one. lucky me! and LTE limit your bandwidth per month so no heavy download possible. 3G is slow but no limit. Still, I need to change internet provider and go back to something easier to configure.