[demo] SNES Sonic

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Nikku4211
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Nikku4211 »

calima wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 12:41 am Or it's an intentional screw-you to the repro makers profiting off others' work.
It's a double-edged sword if you intend to make money off of cartridges of your own game.
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Gilbert
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Gilbert »

But considering the pricing of games (I think mid to late SFC games cost nearly 10,000 yen on average, compared to the usual pricing of 5000 - 6000 yen for a PCE CD, which could contain A LOT MORE contents, not to mention games with special chips may be sold in even higher prices; by the N64 time I think the big N was in a huge disadvantage though, considering how expensive their game cartridges were compared to games for the rival disc based systems) at that era they're still profiting from the games even with the inclusion of special chips, if the games showed off and people were still willing to buy them (but if the games didn't sell... well...).

At least, this stopped/slowed down people from running the games with game copiers (for a while at least).

(One of?) The most egregious case did not come from the big N though. Virtua Racing for the Mega Drive was amazing, but at the cost of including a very expensive co-processor, making the game cart very expensive, so Sega never released any other games with that chip. The irony part was, it was released at the same time as the 32X, which was a very powerful add on and had its own version of Virtua Racing that should be even better than the plain MD version. You may also say, the 32X is itself another of these egregious cases though. (Hint: Buy a Sega Saturn, though its version of VR was considered a porting disaster, you can at least play even even better versions of Virtua Fighter, among many other games .)
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by strat »

You may also say, the 32X is itself another of these egregious cases though.
It's amazing to think 32-X came about because Sega's president was spooked by the Jaguar.
https://archive.org/details/retro_gamer ... ew=theater
SA-1, the lazy programmer best friend
When you're programming on a low-level, embedded system to begin with, utilizing a second cpu is if anything a lot more work.
It's a double-edged sword if you intend to make money off of cartridges of your own game.
Are any original, homebrew SNES games using SA-1? Plenty of romhacks, of course.
T0biasCZe
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by T0biasCZe »

Could you please reupload the rom? The download has been taken down...
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LucianoTheWindowsFan
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by LucianoTheWindowsFan »

T0biasCZe wrote: Mon Jan 10, 2022 9:35 am Could you please reupload the rom? The download has been taken down...
Luciano to the rescue!

Also, yes, I know the original thread is old.
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SNES Sonic.smc
First version
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ROM.smc
Latest version
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The SNES is my favorite console, not only because it is an upgrade to the NES, but because it had some quality games as well (e.g. EarthBound and Kirby's Dream Land 3).
slogra
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by slogra »

First of all, many thanks for this amazing port! It's absolutely incredible!

I would love to see this port to be exactly like the original, but some of the colors are a bit off. So I'm fixing the colors in a hex editor at the moment. I've fixed the colors of Sonic, Motobug and the rings/jumppad (although the latter also need changes of graphics/tiles).

That's about as far as my hacking skill go :). I'm trying to figure out how to the fix the background layer. The colors are too bright, and i think it is caused by the gradient effect, right? How can i disable the gradient effect? Is that possible in a hex editor?
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Nikku4211
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Nikku4211 »

Since everyone's bumping threads in this forum now:
strat wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:09 pm
SA-1, the lazy programmer best friend
When you're programming on a low-level, embedded system to begin with, utilizing a second cpu is if anything a lot more work.
The SA-1's CPU is way more faster than the SNES' own CPU, and is also 65816 based itself. Whatever problems programmers might have with learning how to use a co-processor could eventually pave the way for being able to code a lot of things under a tight deadline without having to spend so many months and so much of the bosses' wallets on optimising code.
strat wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:09 pm
It's a double-edged sword if you intend to make money off of cartridges of your own game.
Are any original, homebrew SNES games using SA-1? Plenty of romhacks, of course.
No, but there aren't a lot of original homebrew SNES games full-stop. We can't know what the future is going to be like if more people were motivated enough to make many more original homebrew SNES games.

Perhaps there'd be a separation between people making homebrew SNES games for emulators and flashcarts and people making homebrew SNES games to manufacture on their own cartridges. Like, of the future SNESDevs that would be interested in using enhancement chips(which might still be small), the former would prefer to use enhancement chips that are already supported by emulators and some flashcarts, and the latter would prefer to use easily available modern chips as enhancement chips instead of the OG enhancement chips that are no longer being produced as-is. Though it'd be very inconvenient to debug a game without an emulator or an actual dev kit, so the latter would have to make their own fork of an emulator if they want to use a good debugger.

But yeah, to my knowledge, no full original SNES homebrew game (as in not a demo of a game or a tech demo or a demoscene) uses the SA-1.
I have an ASD, so empathy is not natural for me. If I hurt you, I apologise.
iNCEPTIONAL
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by iNCEPTIONAL »

Nikku4211 wrote: Mon Feb 07, 2022 2:06 am Since everyone's bumping threads in this forum now:
strat wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:09 pm
SA-1, the lazy programmer best friend
When you're programming on a low-level, embedded system to begin with, utilizing a second cpu is if anything a lot more work.
The SA-1's CPU is way more faster than the SNES' own CPU, and is also 65816 based itself. Whatever problems programmers might have with learning how to use a co-processor could eventually pave the way for being able to code a lot of things under a tight deadline without having to spend so many months and so much of the bosses' wallets on optimising code.
strat wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:09 pm
It's a double-edged sword if you intend to make money off of cartridges of your own game.
Are any original, homebrew SNES games using SA-1? Plenty of romhacks, of course.
No, but there aren't a lot of original homebrew SNES games full-stop. We can't know what the future is going to be like if more people were motivated enough to make many more original homebrew SNES games.

Perhaps there'd be a separation between people making homebrew SNES games for emulators and flashcarts and people making homebrew SNES games to manufacture on their own cartridges. Like, of the future SNESDevs that would be interested in using enhancement chips(which might still be small), the former would prefer to use enhancement chips that are already supported by emulators and some flashcarts, and the latter would prefer to use easily available modern chips as enhancement chips instead of the OG enhancement chips that are no longer being produced as-is. Though it'd be very inconvenient to debug a game without an emulator or an actual dev kit, so the latter would have to make their own fork of an emulator if they want to use a good debugger.

But yeah, to my knowledge, no full original SNES homebrew game (as in not a demo of a game or a tech demo or a demoscene) uses the SA-1.
This is the exact thing I want to see a lot more of on SNES--brand new games. Genesis is getting a crap-load of brand new games, some of them hot-damn impressive, and I think SNES deserves the same. I don't care if those games use SA-1--it would probably be more interesting to see what people can actually achieve on the stock SNES with 30+ years of learning and the like--but either way, I'd be happy to just see many more brand new SNES games.
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by calima »

There's many things underway ;) And do check out the three SNES jam entries in the meanwhile.
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by iNCEPTIONAL »

calima wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:18 am There's many things underway ;) And do check out the three SNES jam entries in the meanwhile.
Where can I check that out?
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by Nikku4211 »

calima wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:18 am There's many things underway ;) And do check out the three SNES jam entries in the meanwhile.
Wait, I thought there was 4.
SNESJam2021Subs.png
There's 4, yeah.
iNCEPTIONAL wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:24 pm Where can I check that out?
Here.
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calima
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by calima »

The edited platform sample doesn't really count, it's not worth spending the minute to try it on.
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by iNCEPTIONAL »

Nikku4211 wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 7:43 pm
calima wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 12:18 am There's many things underway ;) And do check out the three SNES jam entries in the meanwhile.
Wait, I thought there was 4.

SNESJam2021Subs.png

There's 4, yeah.
iNCEPTIONAL wrote: Sat Feb 19, 2022 3:24 pm Where can I check that out?
Here.
OK, those are nice to see--it's just nice to see any modern development for SNES--but there's nothing there to blow people away and really show off what the SNES can do. Although Dottie dreads nought looks very cool and like an actual proper finished-quality game, which I really appreciate, and the first puzzle game is interesting too. But I really want to see people push the SNES to and beyond its known limits. Genesis homebrew devs are doing this on a regular basis, stunningly so at times: https://twitter.com/gasega68k/status/14 ... 7924981760 (that's running on a stock Genesis!) So I'm looking at all the really talented SNES designers, artists, musicians and programmers out there to create some new titles for it that are like mind boggling--which, honestly, that Star Fox demo on Genesis absolutely is--or at least create some stuff for the SNES that's just very impressive. I mean, it's not THAT hard to just make something on any of these platforms, but it's extremely hard to make something genuinely special on any of these platforms. The 16-bit console war never ended, and it's time the SNES started asserting its dominance again, before the Genesis runs away with a late victory 30+ years after the fact. . . . :D
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by tokumaru »

I'm all for maxing out what old consoles can do, but not because of some stupid war...
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Re: [demo] SNES Sonic

Post by iNCEPTIONAL »

tokumaru wrote: Sun Feb 20, 2022 9:27 am I'm all for maxing out what old consoles can do, but not because of some stupid war...
I'm all for both reasons.

Were you alive during the 16-bit era?

I wonder if there are very few people working on SNES stuff today who were actually around during the 16-bit war, and indeed heavily invested in one console or the other, so that's maybe why they're not working as hard as all those Genesis guys to push the system as far as possible. Because most of those people creating all the stunning Genesis stuff coming out regularly these days seem to either have grown up with the console and/or are from Brazil, where they still consider it the king of the 16-bit was (and it's still selling tens of thousands of new units every single year) and are determined to prove its dominance over the SNES.

The Genesis guys seem to have a fire up their ass, and I don't think enough SNES guys do at all. At least that's my impression. And I think it shows in the difference between what's coming out for Genesis, some of it utterly stunning and beyond anything anyone could have imagined the system was capable of back in the '90s, and what's coming out for SNES in modern times.

But that's just my personal view as someone who did grow up through the SNES/Genesis era and doesn't want to see SNES suddenly dethroned and relegated to second place 30+ years after the fact.

I actually care--the 16-bit console war was a huge deal to many of us growing up--and I want to fight for the console I picked as a kid all those years ago (and would again).

So, yeah, I wanna make a new SNES game because I love SNES. And I wanna make a new SNES game also to remind people just why it won the console war in the first place all these years ago.
Last edited by iNCEPTIONAL on Sun Feb 20, 2022 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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