Nesmaker or 6502???!

Discuss technical or other issues relating to programming the Nintendo Entertainment System, Famicom, or compatible systems. See the NESdev wiki for more information.

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kimjaco
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Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by kimjaco »

Hey guys :shock:
I have something I really can't wrap my head around...
Where shall I start, in my process of making a Nes game?!!! I have some conflicting thoughts which revolves around:

- It seems like a rough road to start from scratch. I have no experience what so ever from programing. I know about Nerdy knights tutorial. pluss some other tutorials on YT for instance.
This seems like the best way to go.. BUt,, ! It also seems to me like I have to use many years making small pong-like games before I can start making something that is something of what I have imagined that I want to make.. If this is the way, then I do have to go that road, BUt,,! I am also wondering about NESmaker. ... It seems like a fun way to start. Where I can start making progress from the getgo , BUT it also seems to me that it's quite restrickted... So, So these two ways of aproaching it, blend togheter .. Like if I start with the Nes maker for instance. Will the time I invest in learning that program , be transferable to 6502 assembling? Thanks for reading this, and I hope some of you guys can help me, on some pointers. :)
Kim JACO
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yoeynsf
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by yoeynsf »

I remember thinking the same thing when I was starting out!
I can only really speak for ASM since that's the route I decided to take, but over time I've kinda noticed some things about both that are probably good to note. Also, I think NESMaker does have it's own forums.... here, so it may be of interest to ask there too.
It also seems to me like I have to use many years making small pong-like games before I can start making something that is something of what I have imagined that I want to make..
Depends on how much time you spend working on stuff! It definitely won't take years to figure out what you're doing, especially if you're trying to pick up new concepts proactively. The hard part is just putting it all together into your ideal game :D
I am also wondering about NESmaker. ... It seems like a fun way to start. Where I can start making progress from the getgo , BUT it also seems to me that it's quite restrickted...
From what I've seen on their Discord Server, NESMaker seems to require you to edit the "scripts" if you want to make anything besides the base modules, so either way you'll have to pick up ASM in some capacity- the more impressive NESMaker titles have no doubt modified the codebase pretty heavily. I have also heard that the codebase itself and the way it does some things is frustrating.

As for myself, I kinda kicked around for a while in 2019 trying to pick up stuff like hexadecimal and how the graphics worked but I still wasn't sure how to actually, you know, get stuff going on the system. Eventually, I found clearvus's Zero Pages YouTube tutorials and found out that he walks you through writing a ROM! later on, I found my way to the NESDev Discord Server and asked a bunch of questions and built that into what I had from the tutorial.

I think most of the guys here (myself included) will advocate for ASM or C (or a combo) just because you have full control over how stuff works, or something like that.
good grief
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tokumaru
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by tokumaru »

What takes years to learn is not so much the NES-specific things like 6502 assembly or the CPU, but the concepts that make up all the logic required by the games you want to make, such as physics, collisions, scrolling, object management, and so on. A seasoned programmer that already knows all these things can pick up NES programming in no time, specially if they already know 6502 or any other form of assembly. If you're learning all of it at once though, then I really don't think there's much you can do other than go through the several years it takes to master it all.

You can certainly use something like NESmaker if you want to get results faster, but you'll likely feel restricted by its limitations until you to the point where you have enough knowledge to make customizations with confidence.
Pokun
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by Pokun »

Yeah game programming is said to be the hardest type of programming as it requires one to master all aspects, and that is what takes time. But you have a wealth of information (like this forum and wiki) at your fingertips that will help you.

I also used to think exactly like you do. In the end I took the leap and learned 6502, never regretted it for a second.
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kimjaco
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by kimjaco »

yoeynsf wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:30 pm Also, I think NESMaker does have it's own forums.... here, so it may be of interest to ask there too.

That was a Great little tip. I was checking it out, but I was already convinced to go for the Asm6502


Depends on how much time you spend working on stuff! It definitely won't take years to figure out what you're doing, especially if you're trying to pick up new concepts proactively. The hard part is just putting it all together into your ideal game :D

I am also wondering about NESmaker. ... It seems like a fun way to start. Where I can start making progress from the getgo , BUT it also seems to me that it's quite restrickted...
From what I've seen on their Discord Server, NESMaker seems to require you to edit the "scripts" if you want to make anything besides the base modules, so either way you'll have to pick up ASM in some capacity- the more impressive NESMaker titles have no doubt modified the codebase pretty heavily. I have also heard that the codebase itself and the way it does some things is frustrating.

As for myself, I kinda kicked around for a while in 2019 trying to pick up stuff like hexadecimal and how the graphics worked but I still wasn't sure how to actually, you know, get stuff going on the system. Eventually, I found clearvus's Zero Pages YouTube tutorials and found out that he walks you through writing a ROM! later on, I found my way to the NESDev Discord Server and asked a bunch of questions and built that into what I had from the tutorial.

I think most of the guys here (myself included) will advocate for ASM or C (or a combo) just because you have full control over how stuff works, or something like that.
Thank you so much for replying, and give me that little dip, to tip my scale over on the Asm side!!!
It seems like the best way after all, even tho I'm sure Nesmaker also is a great program! I will start with the zero pages and see where it takes me :)
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kimjaco
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by kimjaco »

tokumaru wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 3:49 pm What takes years to learn is not so much the NES-specific things like 6502 assembly or the CPU, but the concepts that make up all the logic required by the games you want to make, such as physics, collisions, scrolling, object management, and so on. A seasoned programmer that already knows all these things can pick up NES programming in no time, specially if they already know 6502 or any other form of assembly. If you're learning all of it at once though, then I really don't think there's much you can do other than go through the several years it takes to master it all.

You can certainly use something like NESmaker if you want to get results faster, but you'll likely feel restricted by its limitations until you to the point where you have enough knowledge to make customizations with confidence.
Thanks for helping me, getting the confidence I needed to jump into 6502 :D
Apreciate it!
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kimjaco
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by kimjaco »

Pokun wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 4:47 pm Yeah game programming is said to be the hardest type of programming as it requires one to master all aspects, and that is what takes time. But you have a wealth of information (like this forum and wiki) at your fingertips that will help you.

I also used to think exactly like you do. In the end I took the leap and learned 6502, never regretted it for a second.
Thanks alot!!!
Your comment finally made me decide to go for it!
It helps to hear that you guys also thought in the same ways!
Really excited to dive down in this!
Thanks! :D
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tokumaru
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by tokumaru »

I mean, Nerdy Nights is there, all the tools are free... You should definitely go for it if making a cool NES game is your dream, you have nothing to lose. You don't have to start with PONG, there are many other types of simple games you can draw inspiration from for your first project. Take a look at some early Arcade games, or maybe Atari 2600 games, I'm sure you'll find something more interesting than PONG that'd be fun to make and play. And there will always be people here in the forum for you to exchange ideas with.
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by Pokun »

If you follow Nerdy Nights you will end up creating a crude Pong game just as a demonstration of the basics. Creating something of your own would be the next step.
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kimjaco
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by kimjaco »

tokumaru wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 7:12 pm I mean, Nerdy Nights is there, all the tools are free... You should definitely go for it if making a cool NES game is your dream, you have nothing to lose. You don't have to start with PONG, there are many other types of simple games you can draw inspiration from for your first project. Take a look at some early Arcade games, or maybe Atari 2600 games, I'm sure you'll find something more interesting than PONG that'd be fun to make and play. And there will always be people here in the forum for you to exchange ideas with.
My plan is start with The Zero Pages, and then see where it takes me further! I'm also aware of The Nerdy Nights Tutorial, and I will definitely chack that out aswell! I am really grateful for the support and backing I've got from you guys already, and that encourages and motivates me to just have a go for it :) -KJ-
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kimjaco
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by kimjaco »

Pokun wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 9:39 am If you follow Nerdy Nights you will end up creating a crude Pong game just as a demonstration of the basics. Creating something of your own would be the next step.
Thanks! :D
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Sivak
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by Sivak »

I have no experience with the maker, but I can't help but wonder how efficiently it actually converts code.

Still, I'd just go the pure ASM route.
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slobu
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by slobu »

I have a purchased copy of NESMaker. Not a regular user but got close to completing an entry for one of their annual contests.

The truth is you need assembly experience to do anything more than replicate tutorial examples. Some community made assembly customizations exist but that depends on knowing the internals of particular versions of NESMaker and, of course, assembly.

If I could choose my first language again I'd pick C over assembly or BASIC. From there you have a common medium to communicate with many other consoles that have C compilers including NES, SNES, Coleco, Genesis, Jaguar, Gameboy, etc..
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Goose2k
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Re: Nesmaker or 6502???!

Post by Goose2k »

It's probably a little late for OP, but for anyone else looking to get into NESdev, I capture my thoughts on how to get started here:

How to Start Making NES Game
I get asked a lot, “how can I get started making NES games.” I documented my journey in a previous blog, but that’s pretty longwinded and very specific to my experience level. Where you get started will depend a lot on what you already know!

So with that in mind, I’ll attempt to point you in a good starting direction based on the common types of people that have ask me about making NES games.
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