Genre name for a specific game

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DRW
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Genre name for a specific game

Post by DRW »

After a "Zelda"-like action-adventure turned out to be much, much too big a project for a little team like mine, we reconstructed the whole thing and decided to develop something that is actually realistically doable. But I have no idea what genre I should assign to my new project, so maybe you can help me:

The game has a typical "Zelda"/"Final Fantasy" setting with a medieval fantasy world where you fight monsters. (Graphics style: See the two little characters in my avatar on the left.)
But the level structure is more like "Commando": Level-based, linear and vertically scrolling in one direction, with a boss at the end of each level.
No experience points or shops where you can buy something. No free-roaming NPCs that you can talk to. You can collect temporary items in the levels, like in "Castlevania" or "Contra".
Unlike "Commando", the player characters still use melee wapons (sword, axe). Projectiles only exist as semi-temporary sub weapons when you collect the corresponding item.

The game is not like "Arkista's Ring" since it has long levels that you finish by reaching the end and defeating the boss. The levels in "Arkista's Ring" are only two screens high and you have to walk back and forth to find a key.

And the game is not like "King's Knight". "King's Knight" is a typical shoot'em up where not only the screen scrolls automatically, but where even the player character himself always walks forward at the speed of scrolling and you can move him around like a spaceship in "Gradius". Our game has traditional movement and scrolling.

So, how would you call this game?
I cannot call it an action-adventure because this term, especially with the setting and graphical style, immediately makes people think it is an open-world game with an overworld, towns, dungeons, NPC that you can talk to etc.
I cannot call it whatever the genre of "Commando" or "Guerrilla War" is called because those are probably classified as some kind of shooters while the primary weapon in my game is a sword.
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
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TmEE
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by TmEE »

I have heard the term "hack and slash" which may apply in some way.
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Fisher
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by Fisher »

Maybe a "Medieval MetroidVania" or MMV for short?
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DRW
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by DRW »

TmEE wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:51 am I have heard the term "hack and slash" which may apply in some way.
When I hear hack and slash, I think more of games where huge hordes of opponents try to gang up on you. Where you fight your way through crowds of 20 opponents at once.
Fisher wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:56 am Maybe a "Medieval MetroidVania" or MMV for short?
MetroidVania implies non-linear, exploration-based levels.
(Also, "medieval" would be redundant here because the second half of the term, the "Castlevania" part, is already medieval in itself.)
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
calima
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by calima »

Run'n'sword? That's pretty much a run'n'gun except with a sword. Papi Commando for Gen plays similarly (walking vertically plus boss, except it has a gun).
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by TmEE »

I like that lol
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DRW
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by DRW »

calima wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 7:55 am Run'n'sword? That's pretty much a run'n'gun except with a sword.
Hmm. Maybe.
I'm not entirely sure, though: Is run'n'gun not a genre used exclusively for sidescrollers, so run'n'sword would be stuff like "Ninja Gaiden"?

Also, whether my game is a run'n'sword (in case run'n'gun can indeed be used for top-down shooting games) depends on the following question: What distinguishes a run'n'gun from a regular platform shooter? Why is "Contra" considered a run'n'gun, but "Mega Man" usually isn't?
calima wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 7:55 am Papi Commando for Gen plays similarly (walking vertically plus boss, except it has a gun).
Yeah, vertically-scrolling games with gun-carrying characters are quite common: "Commando", "Guerrilla War", "Mercs", "Ikari Warriors". That's the reason it is so difficult to find a genre name for my game. Level- and enemy-appearing-wise it's the same as these games. But physics-wise it's still closer to "Zelda".

Does anybody know of a similar game? A level-based, linear, single-direction-scrolling, non-autoscrolling top-down game where the character uses a melee weapon (and where projectiles are merely temporary sub weapons)?
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by TmEE »

I have never heard Megaman not being a run'n'gun. Sometimes there's a qualifier like overhead or sidescrolling, and your game could be "overhead run'n'sword" like "guerilla war" is overhead run'n'gun.
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by Drag »

How about "Run and slash"? I think "run and sword" is the right idea, but "slash" might be a catchier thing to say, plus it's a combination of "run and gun" and "hack and slash". :P Either one seems like it'd be an acceptable category name though.

Edit: DASH 'N SLASH
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by DRW »

TmEE wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 8:43 am I have never heard Megaman not being a run'n'gun.
As far as I remember, a run'n'gun is a game where you almost always have to stay in motion if you don't want to die, hence the "run" part.
Take "Contra": You get attacked from all sides, so you better keep on moving.
With "Mega Man", it's a bit different: This game often expects you to stand still and consider the situation. Don't rush into the action, but observe the enemy patterns first.

However, I'm not sure about that. Wikipedia calls even "Journey to Silius" a run'n'gun. And this is one of the shooter games where you definitely have to be very cautious. If you simply try to run into the action, you will most likely fail. In this game, you better walk slowly and observe each and every opponent before you act.

Drag wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 1:46 pm How about "Run and slash"? I think "run and sword" is the right idea, but "slash" might be a catchier thing to say, plus it's a combination of "run and gun" and "hack and slash". :P Either one seems like it'd be an acceptable category name though.

Edit: DASH 'N SLASH
Might be indeed a catchy genre name.
But I'm still unsure about the "run" part. If I have to compare my planned game to sidescrollers, it's probably more like "Mega Man" or "Castlevania" and not so much like "Contra": Fight against the monsters that approach you, yes. But also stay still for a while, observe your surroundings. Use the background map for cover. Cut a bush here and there, maybe it will expose a secret passageway. And if you get hit, you're not immediately dead since you have an energy bar.

Imagine if "A Link to the Past" was completely linear in one direction, maybe with a few more opponents on screen than in the actual game: There wouldn't be much running and dashing, right?
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
Pokun
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by Pokun »

I'd always thought run-'n'-gun to be a hybrid of the shooting and platform game genres (and we can think that platform games doesn't have to be side-view, just that they focus on platform jumping, ladders or other athletic elements). Megaman is more of a platform game than a shooting game so it's not a run-'n'-gun game. Shooting typically means lots of enemies and lots of shooting in order to stay alive (Contra, Gradius etc), while Megaman has much more focus on platform jumping action and problem solving, much like Mario games, so it's a primarily a platform game IMHO. Yeah figuring out the enemies' weakness is also a problem solving thing. I guess we could even call it a hybrid puzzle game if we attribute problem solving to the puzzle genre.

Similarly, a fighting game is a game where fighting barehanded (or typical martial arts weapons such as nunchaku or bou) is prominent like in Spartan X, the Kunio-kun games (the non-sports related ones) and Double Dragon games where platform jumping exists but is extremely sparse. These games are normally not as hectic as shooting games (some enemies are even kind enough to wait for their turn to take a beating) but the game does not feature much else than the fighting and you typically must fight to proceed at all.

I also think hack-'n'-slash is basically the melee variant of the shooting genre, where sharp weapons like swords needs to be heavily featured, which makes it different from the regular fighting genre. So yeah, hack-'n'-slash would basically require tons of enemies and mindless fighting action, as opposed to problem solving, platform jumping or other athletic elements.

You didn't explain how the game world looks like except that it isn't an open world like in RPGs and many adventure games. Are you restricted to levels? Do they come linearly? Are the levels limited in movement? If it is we can easily strike the RPG and adventure genres.
Can the player jump, and is platform jumping a thing? If not we might strike the platform genre.

If it features a little bit of everything like sword-fighting and problem solving but is not really a fighter, a shooter nor a hack-'n'-slash, I guess it's just a general action game without any sub-genre being particularly prominent.
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by DRW »

Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 2:34 pm Megaman is more of a platform game than a shooting game so it's not a run-'n'-gun game. Shooting typically means lots of enemies and lots of shooting in order to stay alive (Contra, Gradius etc), while Megaman has much more focus on platform jumping action and problem solving, much like Mario games, so it's a primarily a platform game IMHO.
That's how I see it as well. In "Contra", platforming exists, but is secondary. In "Mega Man", platforming is a huge part of the game. And in "Contra", enemies and projectiles gang up on you, so you have to stay in motion. In "Mega Man", observation is much more frequent.
Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 2:34 pm You didn't explain how the game world looks like except that it isn't an open world like in RPGs and many adventure games. Are you restricted to levels? Do they come linearly? Are the levels limited in movement? If it is we can easily strike the RPG and adventure genres.
Levels are linear, scrolling from bottom to top, without the possibility to scroll backwards. (You can potentially find a secret passageway that moves you to a bonus part of the level, but that one also scrolls vertically.) At the end of each level is a boss. And then you go to the next level.
Items are dropped by enemies or maybe they appear under destroyable background objects. There is no menu to store the items. If you collect a sub weapon and then you collect another one, the first one gets removed from memory.

So, yes, we can disqualify the adventure genre. Calling it an adventure game would be a bit problematic anyway. The visual style is similar to "Zelda", "Final Fantasy" and all these games. Now, if I call it adventure and people see the graphics style, people will automatically assume a game like "Zelda" or "Crystalis" and might feel cheated if it's a linear "Commando"-like game with a fantasy setting.
Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 2:34 pm Can the player jump, and is platform jumping a thing? If not we might strike the platform genre.
No, the characters cannot jump. We plan some floor properties: Snow that makes you slower, lava or acid that hurts you. Or spikes that move in and out of the ground via graphics bank switching. Destroyable objects. But there are no holes that you can fall into.
Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 2:34 pm If it features a little bit of everything like sword-fighting and problem solving but is not really a fighter, a shooter nor a hack-'n'-slash, I guess it's just a general action game without any sub-genre being particularly prominent.
Yeah, but "action" is just so generic. Almost everything is action. "Super Mario Bros." is an action game. "Zelda" is action. So is "Metroid". And even "Balloon Fight" is an action game.
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by Pokun »

The adventure genre is heavily associated with text-adventures and the RPG genre is basically a sub-genre of that (as well as of the war simulation genre and generic roleplay). It's definitely not any of those, so I don't think you have to worry about it being confused for those even though the sprites look very RPGish.

The graphical style and gameplay seems reminiscent of King's Knight, Knightmare and even Gun Smoke, but those are all straight shooting games with a fantasy (and wild western) theme.
DRW wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:05 pm Yeah, but "action" is just so generic. Almost everything is action. "Super Mario Bros." is an action game. "Zelda" is action. So is "Metroid". And even "Balloon Fight" is an action game.
Sure but those belong to the platform game, action-RPG, action-adventure and Joust-clone (which is a kind of platform game thing I guess) genres which are all just sub-genres of the action genre. If a game doesn't fall into any sub-genre the parent genre is the only genre that is left.

I understand your frustration though, there are many games that I like to list under "general action" just because they don't really fall into any one specific action sub-genre, they basically are their own sub-genres. These games includes: Frogger, Digdug (started its own sub-genre but I don't know the name), Blockade (AKA "Snake", although I guess this is a maze game where you are the maze), Digdug II, Splash Lake, Zoo Keeper, Ikki (I guess this is kind of similar to your game?), Marble Madness, Cameltry, Quinty, Wrecking Crew, Nights into Dreams, Shinrei Jusatsushi Taroumaru (kind of like shooting/fighting game but you use curses instead) and Alisia Dragoon (again kind of shooting but with spells, OK this is a type of platform game).

I think it's hard to give any more advice than that without seeing the game.
When the game is shaping out more maybe you can think of the most prominent features of it and possibly make up a new sub-genre based on that if there is really nothing like it.
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by DRW »

Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:58 pm The adventure genre is heavily associated with text-adventures and the RPG genre is basically a sub-genre of that (as well as of the war simulation genre and generic roleplay). It's definitely not any of those, so I don't think you have to worry about it being confused for those even though the sprites look very RPGish.
Of course, nobody will think the game is like "Shadowgate" or "The Bard's Tale".
And due to the obvious live action fights, people will surely not think it's like "Final Fantasy" or "Dragon Warrior".

However, unless I clarify it, I do think from screenshots people will expect a game like this and might be disappointed if they go into it with the wrong expectations:
Final Fantasy Adventure.png
Final Fantasy Adventure.png (12.12 KiB) Viewed 1113 times
Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:58 pm The graphical style and gameplay seems reminiscent of King's Knight, Knightmare and even Gun Smoke, but those are all straight shooting games with a fantasy (and wild western) theme.
The gameplay is definitely not like in "King's Knight" or "Gun Smoke". Even ignoring the shooting aspect, these games have the particular movement style where, if you don't press any button, the player character automatically moves at the speed of scrolling. And with the d-pad, you can move him around like a spaceship in "R-Type" and "Gradius".
My game has completely regular movement: Press the d-pad and the character moves. Release the d-pad and the character stands still. Press right and he faces right. Press down and he faces down.
"Knightmare", apart from the autoscrolling (and again the shooting), is closer to my game, except that the character in "Knightmare" always faces up.

Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:58 pm I understand your frustration though, there are many games that I like to list under "general action" just because they don't really fall into any one specific action sub-genre, they basically are their own sub-genres.
In my case, it's not really its completely own sub-genre like "Frogger" or "Dig Dug". It's just that the specific combination of my game is not so common. But the base ingredients do exist in many other game:

My game is like "Commando", if it used a melee weapon instead of a gun and a fantasy setting instead of a military setting.
My game is like "A Link to the Past" if it was a strictly linear action game with one-way scrolling and without towns or a menu, but with "Contra"-style item pickup (picking up one B-button weapon replaces the current B-button weapon in your inventory).
Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:58 pm I think it's hard to give any more advice than that without seeing the game.
If I had much to show, I would. Unfortunately, I'm still working on the general engine, so unless you want to see a test level with five screens and with exactly one opponent who does nothing but walking to the right, plus the heroes and the collision checks between hero, opponent and sword, I cannot demonstrate much as of now.
Pokun wrote: Mon May 30, 2022 3:58 pm When the game is shaping out more maybe you can think of the most prominent features of it and possibly make up a new sub-genre based on that if there is really nothing like it.
It's not really a totally new sub-genre. It's just that all those games usually happen to use a military setting and guns. And I borrowed the typical "Zelda"-like action-adventure setting and fighting mechanics and put them into the linear levels and item management from "Commando"-like shooter games.

I'm surprised that there isn't already such a game style. I mean, there's no reason that a vertically-scrolling top-down game has to be a shooter. Or that the fighting mechanics and monster physics from "Zelda" have to be in a huge open-world game.
I can't be the only one who ever did a top-down linear game with a primary melee weapon, can I?
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
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Re: Genre name for a specific game

Post by Oziphantom »

vertical scrolling - action - hack'n'slash type game play with a liner level and boss at the end. "Arcade Action "
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