Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
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Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
On the wiki, I've decided it would be good to document the physical appearance of all CPU and PPU packages, as long as they have markings on them. (Not chips-on-board, and only things we're confident haven't been remarked).
If you're willing to help, please post pictures here or add them to the wiki. Ideally something you will permit redistribution of as CC-0 (or CC-BY).
If you're willing to help, please post pictures here or add them to the wiki. Ideally something you will permit redistribution of as CC-0 (or CC-BY).
- Individualised
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Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Have NES CPU/PPU chips been known to have been remarked by Chinese sellers in the past? I know the practice is common for "stock" chips like Yamaha FM chips and such but I've never heard of it happening with custom chips. Makes me wonder if clones have been remarked as Ricoh chips before if that's the case.
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Yes. You cannot be assured that anything bought loose and a well-known DIP part has not been remarked.
- Individualised
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Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
That's crazy. I mentioned the clone thing in particular because YM2149F PSG chips are often remarked as AY-3-8910 chips. Those two chips are 100% compatible, but the sound they produce can be quite different from each other. Presumably, this is done because the AY chip is in more demand than the Yamaha chip. So I wouldn't be surprised if other chips are often remarked as compatible chips (of course, sometimes Chinese resellers mark entirely different chips as being something else, or worse, send you a chip that's just a chunk of plastic with nothing inside.)
Anyway, I'll refrain from derailing the thread further as I'd also like to see more images of chip variants on the wiki.
Anyway, I'll refrain from derailing the thread further as I'd also like to see more images of chip variants on the wiki.
- krzysiobal
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Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Here are photos made by me just a seconds ago from my collection with additional comments.
Do with them whatever you want (sorry, I am ignorant about the licences)
A lot of games games problems running on this procesor:
* some MMC3 games (epoxy glob) glitch (it is not because of lacking some functonality, because the same game dumped and played on my flashcard on this CPU works fine), looks like the shortened low period on M2 disurbes something in the mapper of MMC3
* 168 in 1 (which uses M2 to reset its latch) do not even starts, looks like the electric characteristic of the M2 is also different They changed placement of the logo from left to top somewhere in the middle of '90.
There are three versions
#1- datecode XXXXS - they have high power usage and 16 M2 divider
#2 - datecode XXXX-BS, logo on left - they have high power usage and 15 M2 divider
#3 - datecode XXXX-BS, logo on top - lower power usage and M2 divider RP2C02G-0 - those are the only two versions that tend to have OAM corruption if there are no series resistors on the CPU data lines in the cartridge. Also the OAM seem to become broken very easily (I have two pieces which are fine except that sprites arent displayed at all or are all broken)
TA** CPU/PPU from Stylandia (IQ502 rev1)
Do with them whatever you want (sorry, I am ignorant about the licences)
A lot of games games problems running on this procesor:
* some MMC3 games (epoxy glob) glitch (it is not because of lacking some functonality, because the same game dumped and played on my flashcard on this CPU works fine), looks like the shortened low period on M2 disurbes something in the mapper of MMC3
* 168 in 1 (which uses M2 to reset its latch) do not even starts, looks like the electric characteristic of the M2 is also different They changed placement of the logo from left to top somewhere in the middle of '90.
There are three versions
#1- datecode XXXXS - they have high power usage and 16 M2 divider
#2 - datecode XXXX-BS, logo on left - they have high power usage and 15 M2 divider
#3 - datecode XXXX-BS, logo on top - lower power usage and M2 divider RP2C02G-0 - those are the only two versions that tend to have OAM corruption if there are no series resistors on the CPU data lines in the cartridge. Also the OAM seem to become broken very easily (I have two pieces which are fine except that sprites arent displayed at all or are all broken)
TA** CPU/PPU from Stylandia (IQ502 rev1)
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Do you know how/if these differ from UA6540 ?krzysiobal wrote: ↑Wed Sep 14, 2022 1:31 am [UA6527P with] datecode XXXXS - they have high power usage and 16 M2 divider
- Individualised
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- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:46 am
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Wait... just saw the 2A02 on the PPU page? What's that all about? Is it a prototype, and why is it on the PPU page? I also see on the CPU page there's a "2A03E" but without the RP/Ricoh branding, and the description mentions this 2A02, so I suppose these are clones or clone-adjacent, but the name still confuses me, doesn't 2A02 refer to a prototype CPU? Did the cloners mix up the names for the 2A03 and 2C02, and called their PPU clone a 2A02?
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
The last of all of those.
See what weird things we discover when we actually start aggregating this?
See what weird things we discover when we actually start aggregating this?
- Individualised
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- Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2022 6:46 am
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
All I know is that I really appreciate work like this. I have an odd fascination with obscure variants of computer hardware and software and other sorts of "computer archaeology" so this thread is definitely my cup of tea. If only I could help with this to show my appreciation, but I don't think I would have anything of use. I do have a few Famiclones but as they're plug and plays I imagine they have an epoxy glob rather than an exposed chip.
Hope I'm not derailing the thread too much, sorry if I am. I just have a special interest in stuff like this.
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
A famiclone with on-board cartridge. CPU is "2A03E" from USC, so it is not the genuine RP2A03E. PPU is GT-01 from unknown manufacturer. I've never seen a PLCC44 PPU before!
Someday I'll try tracing the pinout of the PPU.
Someday I'll try tracing the pinout of the PPU.
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Last edited by lidnariq on Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: :oops:
Reason: :oops:
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Yes, both genuine (RP) and clone (UA) chips are very commonly re-surfaced and re-marked via Chinese gray market channels.Individualised wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 1:46 pmHave NES CPU/PPU chips been known to have been remarked by Chinese sellers in the past? I know the practice is common for "stock" chips like Yamaha FM chips and such but I've never heard of it happening with custom chips. Makes me wonder if clones have been remarked as Ricoh chips before if that's the case.
The re-marking is usually done with laser engraving while the original markings were usually done with white ink printing. I'm not sure if this is a failsafe test because I do have a batch of RP2C02H-0 marked chips that are laser engraved and they do appear to be genuine (non-clone color palette). It's possible they were re-marked anyway though.
I can absolutely confirm that clones are sometimes remarked as genuine. I purchased several dozen chips that were laser engraved with RP2A03E in oddly large text and all of them had the same lot code. They turned out to actually be a variety of UA6527 (12x, clone audio), UA6527P (16x), UA6527P (15x), and also I believe some genuine RP2A03 as well (12x, and with correct audio).
I've also often purchased clone chips that are re-marked clone chips! Again, the laser engraving is usually a giveaway, especially when the other markings on the chip (orientation markers, presence and/or size of circles, bottom markings) are different from each other but the (presumably made up) lot codes are the same. I've received chips marked UA6527 that were actually UA6527P, and even chips marked UA6527P with the 15x-style markings that actually have 16x clock dividers.
This is a bit of an aside, but does anyone know of a ROM that will definitively verify the identity and/or revision of the CPU/PPU that it's running on? I know that 240p Test Suite and Overclock Test can both identify the (divided) CPU clock speed, but I'm looking for an easy way to identify clone/genuine revisions in even more granular detail on otherwise unknown (aka obviously re-marked) chips.
Re: Help collecting pictures of CPU and PPU packages
Here are some pictures I took for things that are currently missing from the wiki pages.lidnariq wrote: ↑Tue Sep 13, 2022 12:49 pm On the wiki, I've decided it would be good to document the physical appearance of all CPU and PPU packages, as long as they have markings on them. (Not chips-on-board, and only things we're confident haven't been remarked).
If you're willing to help, please post pictures here or add them to the wiki. Ideally something you will permit redistribution of as CC-0 (or CC-BY).
A photo of an RC2C03B chip (code 4A4 30). Tested and working RGB PPU.
A photo of an RC2C05-04 chip (code 7C3 12). Tested and working RGB PPU.
A photo of a "2C02E" chip with a flat aluminum plate laminated to the top. The chip marking "2C02E" is stamped into the aluminum plate and there is no lot code; one corner of the plate is angled to indicate the orientation / pin 1. On the underside there are two somewhat larger-than-average circles molded into the plastic, and it says "JA" inside one of them and "19" inside the other. The chip has been tested and is indeed a working NTSC PPU that outputs a non-clone palette.
You are welcome to use these pictures for any purpose.