Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

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Yolt1
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Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Yolt1 »

Hi guys,

I decided to make a repro of this wonderful hack of the first "Zelda" on the NES.
Link for the lazy ones : https://www.romhacking.net/hacks/5752/ :-P

It was made by ShadowOne33 (https://github.com/ShadowOne333) who has already done a Redux hack of the second Zelda "Legend of Link" game, among other projects.

The game is running without any problem on the emulator, But i am facing graphical glitches with the repro I made...
At first the title screen is fine, but after reaching the menu some sprites are messed up. It gets even worst upon reaching the game itself, as you will see in my pictures below.


But first, in order to give you as much info as possible here are some quick facts:

1. the initial file of the game is 180Ko... while the PRG you get is - of course - reduced to the 128Ko as it should be.
files.jpg
This is very strange and I asked myself if I shouldn't have rather tried to "extend" the game to 256Ko instead (and burn it on a 27C2001)


2. Now here is what i get afte making the repro (I used a 27C1001 EPROM to fit the PRG and a SN-ROM board as donor)
title.jpg
menu.jpg
gameblink.jpg
I honestly don't think these glitches are due to an error with the repro itself... My guess is that the ROM you're getting after making the necessary procedure to obtain a .bin file (the one you need to burn on your EPROM) is somehow corrupted/faulty.



Can anybody give me a clue of what is happening here?
And even better, can somoene tell me how to fix this / avoid avoid having the problem on real hardware?

Thanks in advance for your help
;-)
Last edited by Yolt1 on Sun Sep 18, 2022 11:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Dwedit
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Re: Issur with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Dwedit »

You shouldn't be seeing any files with sizes of 180K. Start over with clean ROM files (This hack wants PRG0), and apply the patch to that.
Here come the fortune cookies! Here come the fortune cookies! They're wearing paper hats!
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Yolt1
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Re: Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Yolt1 »

Dear Dwedit,

Thanks for tour answer.
Dwedit wrote: Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:20 pm You shouldn't be seeing any files with sizes of 180K. Start over with clean ROM files (This hack wants PRG0), and apply the patch to that.
Yes, I know, what I called "initial ROM" on my printscreeen was the ROM already patched. Sorry for the misunderstanding...
I don't understand what you mean by "clean ROM" but anyway, here is precisely what I did :

1. Got the original "Legend of Zelda USA" ROM. This file is 128Ko
romdetails.jpg

2. Got the patch from ROMhacking (link in my previous message)

3. applied the patch an obtained the so-called "initial ROM" of 180Ko (see previous message)... Having a bigger file than normal when applying a patch is something I have already seen. so I was not worried.
--> At this point the modified game plays fine on Emulator. No glitches!

4. Run the NES Mapper program and followed this procedure (the order is in red but the printscreen here is only indicative)
procedure.jpg

5. Ended up with the PRG ( .bin file) of the correct size of 128Ko. (see previous message).

6. burned my EPROM. Made the repro. Got the problem '^_^


So, if you see something incorrect here, do not hesitate to correct me. And thank you once again for the assistance.
See ya


PS: Have you already tried this out? If not, could you try and see what you're getting?
Fiskbit
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Re: Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Fiskbit »

The MMC1 version of this hack, which is indeed what you should be using, requires different hardware from the original Zelda. Instead of an 8 KB CHR-RAM chip, it needs a 32 KB one to support the animated backgrounds. You're seeing animation problems, suggesting this is your issue.


Separately, I'm baffled that it's working that well for you, because everything else I see in your posts looks wrong. Using a Zelda 1 PRG0 ROM, if I apply the MMC1 patch, the resulting ROM is 128 KB. If I apply the MMC5 patch, it's 192 KB. Neither makes a 177 KB file, nor does that size make any sense for a ROM file. Neither one has a header matching the one in your latest image, either.

Looking at the patches, I see that the MMC1 patch overwrites header bytes 0x00007-0000B with 08 00 00 70 09, and the MMC5 patch overwrites 0x00005-00006 with 08 52. Neither of these match the relevant portion of your header. In fact, the bytes not modified by either patch are wildly wrong, too; for example, it claims 512 KB PRG, but the hack only uses 128.

Given this, it looks to me like some combination of the following:
1) You're not using the right source ROM.
2) You're not using the right patch.
3) The file you're trying to use isn't actually the one produced by your patcher.

I don't know if you need to actually figure out what's going on here because the issue you see on hardware seems unrelated, but it doesn't make any sense.


(I remain frustrated that the MMC5 version is still included; the entire reason I wrote the code to make this hack work with MMC1 was because MMC5 isn't necessary and so there is no justification for making people destroy yet more MMC5 cartridges for repros. The MMC5 version offers no benefit, makes it harder to maintain the hack, and makes it more confusing to users, who have to make a choice where their only context is that 5 is better than 1.)
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Yolt1
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Re: Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Yolt1 »

Fiskbit wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:57 am The MMC1 version of this hack, which is indeed what you should be using, requires different hardware from the original Zelda. Instead of an 8 KB CHR-RAM chip, it needs a 32 KB one to support the animated backgrounds. You're seeing animation problems, suggesting this is your issue.
Hey there,
Now that is an interesting hint! In fact that even seems to be the solution :-p
So, if you're correct, what I should do right now is upgrading from a 8K RAM to a 32KRAM to make it work. This is quiet doable and I can't wait to try it out and see if it solves the problem.


As far as the rest is concerned :
Fiskbit wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:57 am Separately, I'm baffled that it's working that well for you, because everything else I see in your posts looks wrong. Using a Zelda 1 PRG0 ROM, if I apply the MMC1 patch, the resulting ROM is 128 KB. If I apply the MMC5 patch, it's 192 KB. Neither makes a 177 KB file, nor does that size make any sense for a ROM file. Neither one has a header matching the one in your latest image, either.

Looking at the patches, I see that the MMC1 patch overwrites header bytes 0x00007-0000B with 08 00 00 70 09, and the MMC5 patch overwrites 0x00005-00006 with 08 52. Neither of these match the relevant portion of your header. In fact, the bytes not modified by either patch are wildly wrong, too; for example, it claims 512 KB PRG, but the hack only uses 128.
The image of NES Mapper program I inserted in my 2nd post is just a picture I took from the internet... not my real printscreen!
(i thought I made it clear but this pics was there only for illustration purposes :-p )
So, do not pay attention at what's written in the HEADER field at all... Sorry if this caused you a headache

Fiskbit wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 3:57 am (I remain frustrated that the MMC5 version is still included; the entire reason I wrote the code to make this hack work with MMC1 was because MMC5 isn't necessary and so there is no justification for making people destroy yet more MMC5 cartridges for repros. The MMC5 version offers no benefit, makes it harder to maintain the hack, and makes it more confusing to users, who have to make a choice where their only context is that 5 is better than 1.)[/size]
"I wrote the code" !? Does this mean i am talking with the author of this Hack?
If that's the case, the really least i can say is "Thank you" for the awesome work you did there. Also, I wanted to let you know i also already made a "Zelda 2 REDUX" repro and it is working fine! What a great way to enjoy this under-rated game! (the first "Zelda" game i owned as a kid and really loved). You did an incredible job with these two hacks :-)

in any case I totally agree with you on the MMC5 matter! (no need for destruction of more MMC5...already rare and expensive enough)

[EDIT] OK I see it now...
credits.jpg
Last edited by Yolt1 on Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Fiskbit
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Re: Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Fiskbit »

Got it, sorry for the confusion regarding the headers. The file size is still bizarre, though; the resulting ROM should not be 177 KB.

And yeah, I wrote the MMC1 animation stuff hoping they'd abandon MMC5, since they switched to it specifically for background animation. Knowing that people insist on making repros, I'd rather the games they destroy be more common (though preferably people would use clone or new parts). I'm not actually a fan of this hack, but clearly many people like it.
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Yolt1
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Re: Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Yolt1 »

Not sure about the file... I think I took special attention to use what the hack requires
infos.jpg
But I will double-check


Anyway, I don't make tons of repros. I make the hacks that really added something to the game (like a saving system) and that I whish to enjoy again and again on my real hardware :-D
The ones that directly come to my mind for the NES are:
Castlevania 2 by Bisqwit, the Super Mario Alls-stars by Infidelity, the Metroid +saving by snarfblam, these Zelda REDUX hacks, among others

I stick to your point of view 100% for the MMC5 matter. You clearly made a wise decision to add MMC1 as a possibility (SNROM boards - for Famicom - are really common and a much wiser choice to use as donor)


Thanks for your advice on the RAM!
I will try it as soon as possible and get back to you... Hopefully it will solve everything

Keep up the awesome job
Fiskbit
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Re: Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Fiskbit »

Yolt1 wrote: Mon Sep 19, 2022 6:43 am Not sure about the file... I think I took special attention to use what the hack requires
The problem isn't your source file. The patching process is turning your 128 KB input ROM into a 177 KB output ROM. Files only increase in size from patching if the patch includes changes that are beyond the end of the input ROM. This hack is supposed to produce a 128 KB ROM. You could patch any file under 177 KB and you shouldn't end up with a 177 KB file, because the patch doesn't change anything beyond 128 KB. There must be a problem with your patch or patcher.
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Yolt1
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Re: Issue with repro of "The Legend of Zelda Redux"

Post by Yolt1 »

Yes, indeed. I don't know what happened there...
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