Gameplay suggestion: How to encourage the player to approach the enemies

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SNES AYE
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Re: Gameplay suggestion: How to encourage the player to approach the enemies

Post by SNES AYE »

Well, freezing them for a couple of frames would be acceptable to me personally, but just long enough that the hit registers and no more. I think maybe all that is wrong for me here is you're holding the freezing in place for bit too long.

So, how about trying the red flash alongside a player position freeze and single hit/damage pose frame held for say three frames (maybe you can combine the pose and colour change into the single sprite image). And try adjusting that hold time shorter and longer to see the bare minimum you can get away with. Then follow that with the normal sprite flashing on/off that shows you're invulnerable for a little while.

Here's some gameplay from MERCS on Genesis showing how they handle it for example, which is almost what I'm saying but just without the red flash I'd add typically add:

https://youtu.be/_2bR0dP_zb4?t=532

And, as you can see above, it's not essential to flash the character red if the damage pose clearly telegraphs to the player what's just happened. I'd just try it myself to see if it adds to result here. And it's the same pose they go to regardless of what direction the character is facing, so it's literally just one extra image required for the sprite. You could possibly even use a frame that's created already for some other action, if it could pass here for a taking-damage pose when held for a couple of frames.

Does that make sense?

I know you likely think you're basically doing what I'm saying anyway, but, for me, it's the difference between literally single frames in time and so on the make all the difference, with 99% of the real magic being found in the tweaking and polishing of little the things that affect 99% of the actual overall gameplay experience.

So, I hope that clarifies things a bit.

And, just to emphasize, I'm not saying you absolutely have to do any of this. Most people will be totally fine with what you already have. I'm just suggesting some things that might work a tiny bit better in my personal opinion. :)
SNES AYE
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:28 am

Re: Gameplay suggestion: How to encourage the player to approach the enemies

Post by SNES AYE »

And, I'm not sure if you think this would be a good addition, but how about letting the player actually destroy enemy projectiles if they strike them in the air with the sword or whatever item?

You know, as seen in games like Castlevania IV:

https://youtu.be/jd7P7niYimk?t=952

https://youtu.be/jd7P7niYimk?t=1943

I don't know if you think that would make the game too easy, but I know I like when I can do that. It makes me feel quite badass and is rather satisfying. And I think that might balance some of the times I feel like I'm taking some unfair damage from enemy projectiles.

Also, I would personally add a collision check that lets the player hit an enemy who's standing on the same screen space as them where they're basically on top of each other (can happen quite a lot if you take damage and freeze when there's a few enemies close), rather than have it so you can swipe repeatedly but miss an enemy you're standing right next to and obviously trying to hit. Right now, you'll only be able to hit them if you move away from them a certain distance and then attack again. You could even push the enemy who's on top of you slightly in the direction you're facing when you swipe, so they move back towards the end of your sword, and then it will visually make sense with them still taking damage. Plus, this will stop the player from sometimes getting stuck with enemies directly on top of them and repeatedly taking damage, where it's hard to get out of the way because they're also being frozen in place for a bit.

That's just a couple of other little things to consider. :)
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DRW
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Re: Gameplay suggestion: How to encourage the player to approach the enemies

Post by DRW »

I might decrease the stun counter by half the value. But three frames is definitely too short. This is as good as nothing.

Also, I don't have the space for a dedicated stun animation. You can check the graphics with the PPU viewer in fceux. I already had to waste redundant banks, so that only one facing direction is shown per hero at the same time. A stun animation for each hero would require two more redundant banks or the removal of items.

SNES AYE wrote: Fri Feb 24, 2023 7:41 am And, just to emphasize, I'm not saying you absolutely have to do any of this. Most people will be totally fine with what you already have. I'm just suggesting some things that might work a tiny bit better in my personal opinion. :)
That's totally fine. That's why I asked people to test the game: I might take or reject ideas, but I'm always grateful if people tell them to me.


Destroying enemy projectiles is still not what I'd like to do. You have to have stuff that you need to evade and that you cannot just kill.

Where do you take damage that you consider unfair?


The issue with the enemies that follow you is something that I already have on my list. In the next version, they will not move on top of the player character anymore, but stop as soon as the collision hits, so you can evade them better.
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
SNES AYE
Posts: 201
Joined: Mon Nov 07, 2022 11:28 am

Re: Gameplay suggestion: How to encourage the player to approach the enemies

Post by SNES AYE »

DRW wrote: Thu Mar 02, 2023 3:36 pm Where do you take damage that you consider unfair?
It's probably just the thing with not being able to hit enemies that are standing on the same spot are the player, which you're already looking into, and then maybe it being a little difficult to avoid the projectiles coming at you at times for whatever reason. Although, the second thing is just my experience of playing, which might be less of an issue with some of the other things you are looking into, and others might find that fine anyway.
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Hamtaro126
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Re: Gameplay suggestion: How to encourage the player to approach the enemies

Post by Hamtaro126 »

I've got some questions:

- What is the game's currently implemented "Currency" method? (for use in Anything)
- New Game Plus, as in... Harder Maps, Harder Bosses, and Harder Dungeons. Almost some normal features should be now limited or gone depending on your ruleset, such as: Higher Enemy Counts, Limit on Currency, Game Health Limit, etc, (After beating the game, This should be unlocked, but don't make it too difficult for most players please), Is this fine?

EDIT: My birthday today as of 3-8-2023!!! Currently now aged at 33 (born 1990)!!!
AKA SmilyMZX/AtariHacker.
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DRW
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Re: Gameplay suggestion: How to encourage the player to approach the enemies

Post by DRW »

Hamtaro126 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:50 am - What is the game's currently implemented "Currency" method? (for use in Anything)
What exacty do you mean? There is no real currency in the game. You cannot buy stuff in shops etc. since this is not an RPG, even though it may look like one in still screenshots.

There is no menu for item storage either.

You pick up a sub weapon and you can use it as often as you like until you lose a life or until you pick up another sub weapon.

And you pick up an item that either has an instant effect (screen clear) or a time-based effect (invincibility). (Picking up such an item doesn't remove your sub weapon.)

If you are interested in the details, feel free to check out the demo ROM:
viewtopic.php?p=285656#p285656

Hamtaro126 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:50 am - New Game Plus, as in... Harder Maps, Harder Bosses, and Harder Dungeons. Almost some normal features should be now limited or gone depending on your ruleset, such as: Higher Enemy Counts, Limit on Currency, Game Health Limit, etc, (After beating the game, This should be unlocked, but don't make it too difficult for most players please), Is this fine?
Thanks for the suggestions.
We will probably include an expert mode where the enemies' stats are tougher, item drops might be rarer, you cannot use passwords and maybe your health is lower.
Expert mode would be unlockable by a password that you get when you clear the game in regular mode.

However, we will probably not include different maps (or completely new enemy patterns) in hard mode.

Also, hard mode won't be the "true" mode that you need to play to unlock the real ending, i.e. we don't do it like in "Little Samson". The canon mode is still the regular one. Hard mode will only be an addition for expert players. But it won't reveal any new plot details, nor any actual new enemies or stuff like that.

Hamtaro126 wrote: Wed Mar 08, 2023 2:50 am EDIT: My birthday today as of 3-8-2023!!! Currently now aged at 33 (born 1990)!!!
Belated best wishes. :D
My game "City Trouble":
Gameplay video: https://youtu.be/Eee0yurkIW4
Download (ROM, manual, artworks): http://www.denny-r-walter.de/city.html
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