What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Discuss NSF files, FamiTracker, MML tools, or anything else related to NES music.

Moderator: Moderators

User avatar
Jedi QuestMaster
Posts: 688
Joined: Thu Sep 07, 2006 1:08 pm
Location: United States
Contact:

What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by Jedi QuestMaster »

I didn't really notice this when I played the game years ago, but looking back at it now, there's no way this sounds intentional to me: https://youtu.be/s_-QUJskVKk

At 50 seconds in, the music seems to be having a stroke.
User avatar
gravelstudios
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:21 pm
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by gravelstudios »

From the comments on youtube, it looks like a lot of people thought this was the legit boss music when they first played the game as kids. But knowing this game was scored by David Wise, I have a hard time believing he'd write something that clunky sounding. He could write some weird music, but it always made sense in context. It sounds to me like a glitch.

I just watched some of a speedrun and the exact same music is played during at least one other boss fight, so if it's a glitch, it's a consistent one.
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

To me it sounds like the tempo was set incorrectly when changing the song. Have you checked the NSF rip?
Drag
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:57 pm
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by Drag »

If you listen to the NSF, this is track 5 (track 3 on zophar), and this isn't a song change, the song just continues into this really strange slowed-down section. I'm going to guess that there's a typo which incorrectly sets the tempo. After this slow section, the song loops back to the beginning with the correct tempo again.
User avatar
gravelstudios
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:21 pm
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by gravelstudios »

I found the track on YouTube and set the playback speed to 2. it sounds a lot more "normal". I agree, I think the audio data has an incorrect tempo value partway through the track. If it is an error, it's a shame it wasn't caught before the game was published.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ntC51 ... 1C&index=6
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

Interesting. I might have a go at fixing this.
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

After having a look at the NSF file in Mesen2's debugger, it seems like there is a "change tempo by X" command. From what I can tell, the initial tempo is $8A, then the command adds $91 (i.e. subtract $6F), and finally, it adds back $6F to revert the change (this might've been added by some kind of tool?). Leaving the tempo as-is (setting the tempo changes to 0) makes the second part too fast, so this really seems like a mistake was made when programming the tempo change.
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

It appears that the intention was to set the tempo to $6F instead of subtracting it. This is evident by the fact that track 3 in the NSF contains a similar section with the tempo set to $6F. I'll make a patch for the game soon, but I'll leave this audio rendition of the fix I made for now.
Attachments
fixed.mp3
(1.41 MiB) Downloaded 63 times
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

Track 3 suffers from an off-by-one error in the tempo change, which I've just fixed. Track 9 starts with a tempo change and lacks the command to reset it. I can probably fix that by setting the initial tempo high and immediately subtracting from it at the start of the loop. There's also a corrupted note in one of the pulse channels? I need to investigate that further.
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

TakuikaNinja wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 3:52 am There's also a corrupted note in one of the pulse channels? I need to investigate that further.
This seems to be intentional since there are 2 instances of a "rising chromatic sequence" in said track.
Are there any other tracks with tempo issues? I've never played the game before, so I can't check my fixes in-game yet.
User avatar
gravelstudios
Posts: 159
Joined: Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:21 pm
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by gravelstudios »

Wow! nice work.
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

gravelstudios wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:04 am Wow! nice work.
Thanks! This thread nerd-sniped me during a vacation of all occasions. I've been borrowing my mother's laptop for this so far (using portable installations to minimize hassle). I'll finish it properly once I get home.
Dacicus
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 4:59 pm

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by Dacicus »

gravelstudios wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 5:26 amFrom the comments on youtube, it looks like a lot of people thought this was the legit boss music when they first played the game as kids. But knowing this game was scored by David Wise, I have a hard time believing he'd write something that clunky sounding. He could write some weird music, but it always made sense in context.
I've always thought that it was the intended music, since the slowing happens just about when you reach the boss or the corridor leading to the boss. It certainly does sound like an error based on the fix that TakuikaNinja implemented, though. But now the fixed part seems to last for too short a time, IMO.
TakuikaNinja wrote: Fri Feb 10, 2023 5:00 amAre there any other tracks with tempo issues? I've never played the game before, so I can't check my fixes in-game yet.
The music in the final rooms leading up to Malkil (after placing the four gems) gradually speeds up over time. If you wait long enough, it eventually stops. I assumed that the increasing speed was intended to invoke a sense of urgency as you get closer to Malkil. IDK if the stopping was intended, though. If you want to check it out without playing through the entire game, you can give yourself the gems by placing values 0x07 through 0x0A in the inventory slots $0657-065A in RAM.
Drag
Posts: 1615
Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 2:57 pm
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by Drag »

The tempo slightly increasing with each loop might be intentional, but the music stopping happens because the tempo setting eventually overflows back to its slowest setting when it increases too much, so the music stopping is unintentional.

Songs that do this are usually not meant to play for long enough to cause artifacts like this to happen. The arcade version of Marble Madness's Silly Race stage is an example of this; the music increases in tempo and in pitch with each loop, and under normal circumstances, you wouldn't have more than 60 seconds to complete the stage, but if you somehow prevented the timer from ever expiring, the music just keeps getting higher and faster until it becomes completely incoherent.
User avatar
TakuikaNinja
Posts: 89
Joined: Mon Jan 09, 2023 6:42 pm
Location: New Zealand
Contact:

Re: What's Going on with This Music? (Wizards & Warriors III)

Post by TakuikaNinja »

I think track 9 in the NSF is the one Dacicus described, which I've already fixed.
Post Reply