Gradius sample - Famicom

[Pops_retrogamer]

Hello Everyone,

My first post here...and that's about a Konami sample on FC: Gradius - RC 810.

I had it in collection for some time and opened it to check...and surprisingly I found what looks like a PCB of a commercial version.



I thought I got scammed...but I had doubts as that looks pretty much like other genuine samples. And i did something I usually never do to avoid damaging the sticker...opening wide the cartridge...and I found out a ref number stamped inside I never saw before.



I decided to compare with another legit sample - Goonies 2 - and I realized there was also a ref number...just different/shorter.



Then I decided to compare with another sample from the same release year at almost the same time than Gradius - Goonies - and I just got the same reference but different figures.



Other developpers like NAMCOT sometimes/often issued samples with the commercial/final version in it, so that's nothing never seen before...but for Konami on Famicom I never heard of that (so far). Could it be possible that Gradius sample was made of mask roms and not eproms? and Would that ref number be a way of authentifying Konami samples?

Asked all that to some JP collectionners on X...a lot of views but no answers yet. Maybe better luck here!

[forple]

I own a copy of Gradius' Sample cartridge as well. What you're describing is most likely a legitimate copy. On this note, "SAMPLE" cartridges should not be expected to be prototypes. In many cases they were the cartridges that would be running the display demos in the store. You weren't really meant to see the cartridge either. The whole point was to show the game in action so you'd be interested in buying it. The reason they use Mask ROMs is because they already made the final game by this point. So there's little reason to burn special EPROMs just for a small run of differently marked cartridges.

The only ones on Famicom I can think of with any significant differences made to the final build were Sunsoft's, and it was mainly to just dummy out things like passwords and such if memory serves me correct. Of course, this is ignoring the companies that would instead use straight up early builds of the game instead.

Additionally, Gradius usually has a numerical identifier of the cartridge's serial number. I can't see yours (and maybe that's actually a good thing). It's written on with a pen and Konami likely used it to track who got the cartridges, but it's also useful to find how many are in circulation. I estimate about 500 based on what I've been told about it, but I haven't seen a serial over 200 just yet. Probably for the better that those aren't really shown much, because there's a known prototype bootlegging scene out there.

That said, a past Japanese collector has posted about obtaining his Salamander Sample cartridge. Inside the display case in the image was also a Gradius cartridge and I inquired about it and he replied saying he didn't find any differences between it and the final game. Additionally with his Gradius cartridge you can see the serial code it has written onto it.

I think the reference number inside might be useful but I'm not entirely sure. It really moreso feels like Konami just allocated a small batch of retail copies and just slapped a different label on them.

[Pops_retrogamer]

Thanks a lot for your answer, my comment below

I truly hope you can help me out on this!

I own a copy of Gradius' Sample cartridge as well.

Excellent! Did you ever open it to check inside? If you're afraid to do so (understand) would you mind:
1- Check if a advertisement screen appears after stage 2 or 3 which displays release date, price or other promotional things?
2- Or check the weight of the cartridge (in grams) so we can compare with others
Thanks to you we may confirm a theory...exciting!

What you're describing is most likely a legitimate copy. On this note, "SAMPLE" cartridges should not be expected to be prototypes. In many cases they were the cartridges that would be running the display demos in the store. You weren't really meant to see the cartridge either. The whole point was to show the game in action so you'd be interested in buying it. The reason they use Mask ROMs is because they already made the final game by this point. So there's little reason to burn special EPROMs just for a small run of differently marked cartridges.

Well some have differences even though meant to be store samples...and large amount of samples were using EPROM especially Konami. That's how most of collectionners are used to check authenticity by the way (when it's known). Here an exemple with the FC Goonies sample in my collection (that I used for comparison). If you have a copy with mask roms, then it's a fake...like many on YA sold by a famous Osaka con man.



Same applies with Goonies 2 and others I've checked so far...but Gradius might be an exception. Like some NAMCOT samples (Macross has EPROM, Sky Kid doesn't for example = > https://popsretrocorner.wixsite.com/my- ... es-famicom - from my humble blog - sorry in French).

The only ones on Famicom I can think of with any significant differences made to the final build were Sunsoft's, and it was mainly to just dummy out things like passwords and such if memory serves me correct. Of course, this is ignoring the companies that would instead use straight up early builds of the game instead.

Most of the time that's not huge differences, I agree 100%...but there are and that's the kind of little things that makes it interesting and desirable (at least to me). Getsu Fuma Den has differences...Goonies II too...
Ref you chat with a JP collectionner, did you see that one:
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm33372625
That should answer your question if not already done.

Additionally, Gradius usually has a numerical identifier of the cartridge's serial number. I can't see yours (and maybe that's actually a good thing). It's written on with a pen and Konami likely used it to track who got the cartridges, but it's also useful to find how many are in circulation. I estimate about 500 based on what I've been told about it, but I haven't seen a serial over 200 just yet. Probably for the better that those aren't really shown much, because there's a known prototype bootlegging scene out there.

Well that's - slightly - more...Mine has #374. So far I sourced in recent years 008/126/159/332/374/522/549 which includes yours and the JP collectionner you mentioned. The number is also hand written on the white box of the cartridge - I have the same with Rampart (for which there is another ongoing story but let's solve this one first )

I think the reference number inside might be useful but I'm not entirely sure. It really moreso feels like Konami just allocated a small batch of retail copies and just slapped a different label on them.

Well I would have thought so too...but I got same number on Goonies sample and that's obviously not from a retail batch as per photo above. So I figure there is maybe something about it but can't tell what.

Besides there is another thing I need to retrieve on that matter. Will share later...
Like the discussion here, I should have joined sooner! haha

[forple]

Excellent! Did you ever open it to check inside? If you're afraid to do so (understand) would you mind:
1- Check if a advertisement screen appears after stage 2 or 3 which displays release date, price or other promotional things?
2- Or check the weight of the cartridge (in grams) so we can compare with others
Thanks to you we may confirm a theory...exciting!

I dumped my copy and it's 100% identical to the final retail title. Mine doesn't have mask ROMs, but it's not EPROMs either, instead being a third category of "OTP" EPROMs that only allow for single time programming (not that this matters). Again, no Gradius sample cartridge is known to have a promotional segment because as previously stated the known copies out there that are legitimate are literally the retail game.

Well some have differences even though meant to be store samples...and large amount of samples were using EPROM especially Konami. That's how most of collectionners are used to check authenticity by the way (when it's known). Here an exemple with the FC Goonies sample in my collection (that I used for comparison). If you have a copy with mask roms, then it's a fake...like many on YA sold by a famous Osaka con man.

Personally I don't think this is a good frame of reference in this particular case. Too many official Famicom games use standard EPROMs, or have OTP EPROMs (which look exactly like Mask ROMs to those unaware), and in the case of Gradius it's clear the sample cartridges were produced so late in development as a promotional item that they host the retail title regardless of what ROM chip type they're using. On top of this, Gradius (FC) is already a port of an existing game, so it's not surprising to me that there wouldn't much for differences anyways.

By the way, I know exactly what seller you're referring to, he's made a name for himself.

Ref you chat with a JP collectionner, did you see that one:
https://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm33372625
That should answer your question if not already done.

To be honest I don't know what you're talking about here? The video links to the Salamander prototype he owns, which I'm already aware is a unique version of the game with a promotional screen. But I was specifically referring to that thread with the multiple links where I inquired specifically about the Gradius Sample cartridge and he replied saying that Gradius specifically had no differences from the final game that he could tell of, which perfectly aligns with my Sample cartridge exhibiting the same exact lack of differences.

Well that's - slightly - more...Mine has #374. So far I sourced in recent years 008/126/159/332/374/522/549 which includes yours and the JP collectionner you mentioned. The number is also hand written on the white box of the cartridge - I have the same with Rampart (for which there is another ongoing story but let's solve this one first )

That's interesting. I guess it's not surprising these Sample cartridges had their own unique boxes but I'm still somewhat surprised to hear about that. Is there a photo of this? I guess it's nice to know my estimate wasn't far off either. But it's just another example of your cartridge being more legitimate.

Well I would have thought so too...but I got same number on Goonies sample and that's obviously not from a retail batch as per photo above. So I figure there is maybe something about it but can't tell what.

I think you do have a point, but the main reason that I'm still skeptical is because I've just seen random batch codes like this appear in a few random Konami titles. Retail Lagrange Point in my case has something like this. Although that game is much later than Gradius (and by quite a while too).

I'm curious what that "extra info" you have is, though.

--

All of that out of the way, I'm confident in saying that your cartridge is legitimate, as far as Gradius and its samples are concerned, but again I don't think much of what's mentioned here matters too much (aside from I guess the hidden cartridge batch code?) since the cartridge itself already is overwhelmingly showcasing it's a legitimate Sample cartridge.