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Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:11 am
by coinheaven
is the CIRAM the WRAM chip above the PRG chip? is this a good schematic to look at when trying to mod a TKROM:
http://nintendoallstars.w.interia.pl/romlab/smb2.txt
bunnyboy wrote:AWESOME, I may have to put this on some carts.
To make a TKROM into TKSROM you just need to rewire CIRAM A10. Cut the CIRAM A10 wire that connects the mmc3 pin 10 to nes connector pin 22. Then solder a wire from nes connector pin 22 to mmc3 pin 12 (chr a17). You may have to cut the chr a17 trace that goes to the chr rom, but it should be unused on the 128KB chip anyways.
The wiki seems to be wrong in saying A16 is used for mapper 118. Bootgods site shows Play Action Football uses TLSROM (no wram) so modifying a TKROM should be much easier.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:07 am
by tepples
CIRAM is the 2 KiB RAM attached to the PPU inside the NES. CIRAM A10 is that RAM chip's A10, and mirroring is the function from PPU A10-A11 to CIRAM A10, which the cart computes. Carts with fixed mirroring set CIRAM A10 = PPU A10 or CIRAM A11 = PPU A11; more sophisticated carts have the mapper compute this function.
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:09 am
by BootGod
Nice work on these patches! I know a lot of people who have wanted to get Buzz & Waldog in particular working on PowerPaks and repros.
It would be a pretty miserable job trying to convert a TLROM or TLSROM even into TKSROM, as there is no spot on them to install a WRAM chip.
I've never actually seen a TKSROM before, what games are supposed to use it?
Posted: Mon Mar 03, 2008 7:37 pm
by MottZilla
I heard 2 games that may use it, those are NES Action Football and Pro Sport Hockey. I was told somewhere here that one of those doesn't have the WRAM.
I updated my webpage again. The next hack up is
Holy Diver from Irem. Holy Diver used the logic chips you'd find in UNROM/CNROM and has iNES mapper 78. Now I Know PowerPAK supports this, but lets say you wanted to build a reproduction, it would be a bitch having to wire those chips and all.
So I hacked
Holy Diver to MMC-1. I haven't fully tested it, but things look to be working fine. The game is 128k prg & 128k chr, no WRAM.
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:31 pm
by coinheaven
great work! i checked and both pro sport hockey and play action football dont have WRAM. i am still up about the TKSROM modding. do you have to mod the PPU in the actual nintendo for this to work? i found this schematic:
GND |01 37| CLK 21.47727Mhz (NTSC)
PRG A11 |02 38| M2
PRG A10 |03 39| PRG A12
PRG A9 |04 40| PRG A13
PRG A8 |05 41| PRG A14
PRG A7 |06 42| PRG D7
PRG A6 |07 43| PRG D6
PRG A5 |08 44| PRG D5
PRG A4 |09 45| PRG D4
PRG A3 |10 46| PRG D3
PRG A2 |11 47| PRG D2
PRG A1 |12 48| PRG D1
PRG A0 |13 49| PRG D0
PRG R/W |14 50| PRG /CE (/A15 & /M2)
/IRQ |15 51| EXP 9
EXP 0 |16 52| EXP 8
EXP 1 |17 53| EXP 7
EXP 2 |18 54| EXP 6
EXP 3 |19 55| EXP 5
EXP 4 |20 56| CHR /WR
CHR /RD |21 57| CIRAM /CE
CIRAM A10 |22 58| CHR A13
CHR A6 |23 59| CHR A7
CHR A5 |24 60| CHR A8
CHR A4 |25 61| CHR A9
CHR A3 |26 62| CHR A11
CHR A2 |27 63| CHR A10
CHR A1 |28 64| CHR A12
CHR A0 |29 65| CHR /A13
CHR D0 |30 66| CHR D7
CHR D1 |31 67| CHR D6
CHR D2 |32 68| CHR D5
CHR D3 |33 69| CHR D4
SECURITY |34 70| SECURITY
SECURITY |35 71| SECURITY
+5V |36 72| GND
+-------+
Cartridge Connector
any non-technical help would be awesome
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:52 pm
by MottZilla
No, you modify the game cartridge. See here:
http://nesdev.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=3949
Bregalad says you cut the MMC3 CIRAMA10 from connecting to the CIRAM A10, and instead connect the MMC3 CHRA16 to the CIRAM A10 on the cart edge. I haven't tested this myself but it sounds right.
Good to know those 2 games don't have WRAM.
Posted: Tue Mar 04, 2008 7:45 pm
by marvelus10
A nice high resolution picture of the modified cart would be really nice too. If anyone gets to it I would like to see some examples. BunnyBoy its time to work some of your magic we need a Box and Manual to go along with this.
Thank you MottZilla keep up the good work.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:48 am
by coinheaven
ok, so i scanned a TKROM board:
I marked the pin 22 and CHR A17 (i think they are correct), but i am unsure of this step:
Cut the CIRAM A10 wire that connects the mmc3 pin 10 to nes connector pin 22
where is pin 10? is the CIRAM A10 wire a trace? i havent cut traces before, can you mess up the board easily?
bunnyboy wrote:AWESOME, I may have to put this on some carts.
To make a TKROM into TKSROM you just need to rewire CIRAM A10. Cut the CIRAM A10 wire that connects the mmc3 pin 10 to nes connector pin 22. Then solder a wire from nes connector pin 22 to mmc3 pin 12 (chr a17). You may have to cut the chr a17 trace that goes to the chr rom, but it should be unused on the 128KB chip anyways.
The wiki seems to be wrong in saying A16 is used for mapper 118. Bootgods site shows Play Action Football uses TLSROM (no wram) so modifying a TKROM should be much easier.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:58 am
by Tormenter
coinheaven wrote:ok, so i scanned a TKROM board:
I marked the pin 22 and CHR A17 (i think they are correct), but i am unsure of this step:
Cut the CIRAM A10 wire that connects the mmc3 pin 10 to nes connector pin 22
where is pin 10? is the CIRAM A10 wire a trace? i havent cut traces before, can you mess up the board easily?
Isnt that pin 15? According to the numbers printed on the board?
bunnyboy wrote:AWESOME, I may have to put this on some carts.
To make a TKROM into TKSROM you just need to rewire CIRAM A10. Cut the CIRAM A10 wire that connects the mmc3 pin 10 to nes connector pin 22. Then solder a wire from nes connector pin 22 to mmc3 pin 12 (chr a17). You may have to cut the chr a17 trace that goes to the chr rom, but it should be unused on the 128KB chip anyways.
The wiki seems to be wrong in saying A16 is used for mapper 118. Bootgods site shows Play Action Football uses TLSROM (no wram) so modifying a TKROM should be much easier.
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:59 am
by coinheaven
yup, your right, i was reading the pinout backwards. here is a new one:
Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:14 pm
by MottZilla
The document on NESDev for EPROM conversions says:
TKROM & TSROM (mapper 4):
PRG socket:
Bend up pins 1, 2, 24, 30 and 31 (or cut tracks 2, 24, 30 and 31)
Solder pin 2 to hole 24 (A16)
Solder pin 24 to GND (OE)
Solder pin 30 to hole 1 (A17)
Solder pin 31 to hole 2 (A18)
CHR socket:
Bend up pins 1, 2, 22, 24, 30, 31 (or cut tracks 2, 22, 24 and 30)
Solder pin 2 to hole 24 (A16)
Solder pin 22 to hole 31 (CE or CHR /A13)
Solder pin 24 to hole 2 (OE or CHR /RD)
Solder pin 30 to hole 1 (A17)
I guess you'll have to decide wether you wish to bend the chip pins or if you want to cut traces and rewire. It's not that hard to do. I'd bought a Ninja gaiden 3 cartridge used and it didn't work. Turned out someone did something that damaged the traces going to the edge connection so I had to solder wires. And back then I really didn't know what I was doing.
I'll pickup a programmer soon and see about building some carts. In my opinion the hardest part is probably making a nice label and putting that on there.
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:51 pm
by Tormenter
Great work Mott! =) Any chance of you ever hacking the pirate game, Super Mario World for NES? Thanks!
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:59 pm
by MottZilla
I've thought about that actually but haven't looked into it. All I know is it uses Mapper 90 which I've heard is very messy. But it is on a list of pirate games I'd like to hack to MMC3, another one being Contra Spirits (a nes pirate version of contra 3).
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:10 am
by Tormenter
bunnyboy wrote:AWESOME, I may have to put this on some carts.
To make a TKROM into TKSROM you just need to rewire CIRAM A10. Cut the CIRAM A10 wire that connects the mmc3 pin 10 to nes connector pin 22. Then solder a wire from nes connector pin 22 to mmc3 pin 12 (chr a17). You may have to cut the chr a17 trace that goes to the chr rom, but it should be unused on the 128KB chip anyways.
The wiki seems to be wrong in saying A16 is used for mapper 118. Bootgods site shows Play Action Football uses TLSROM (no wram) so modifying a TKROM should be much easier.
has anyone tested this to see if it will work on a live cart? thank you
Posted: Wed Apr 16, 2008 11:56 am
by MottZilla
There is no reason it wouldn't work. They worked in Nintendulator, Nestopia, and on the PowerPAK in an official NES system.