nesdev.org

Posted: **Wed May 27, 2009 11:23 pm**

- no call / return

Write some macros then..

.macro CALL
LINK\1 \2
BRA \3
.endm

.macro RET
JMPRN R11
.endm

..or whatever the syntax would be.

- no stack

But you've got RAM, and load/store instructions.

- separate opcodes to specify source and dest registers + alternate modes:
from r1
to r2
alt3
add r3 //same as adc r3,r1,r2; an assembler can reduce, but have fun with a debugger

If an assembler could generate machine code from the more readable syntax, then why couldn't a debugger do it in reverse?

- pipeline that executes the next instruction no matter what, eg:
beq next
inc r0 //this gets called regardless of whether or not the branch was taken

Same as many other RISC processors, and it's not a real problem.

You obviously know more about the SuperFX (and SNES in general) than most people on this forum, but some of these seemed more like personal grievances than real issues.
I'm not saying the SuperFX is the best thing ever. I just find these kinds of co-processors interesting. Whether or not anything useful will come out of it is irrelevant to me.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 6:13 am**

I just find these kinds of co-processors interesting.

So do I !
Honnestly those limitations sounds like fun, and anyway the Super FX was designed to handle super-fast math to render images to be DMA-ed into the SNES's VRAM. There is no point in running other code in the SFX unless your game deseperately slows down by using only the regular CPU.

Posted: **Thu May 28, 2009 3:14 pm**

A lot of the allegedly painful features you describe are common in RISC designs of the era.

True. The SA-1 doesn't have these problems.

What exactly do you mean? Can't the CPU just enter a RAM loop?

Yes, but there is "only" 128k WRAM available. Not fun to sacrifice half of it for your program loop. With the SA-1, both your CPU program and SA-1 program can execute right off the game pack ROM. The SA-1 memory controller will stall the SA-1 only when required.

You mean like x86 instruction prefixes?

I'm not much of an x86 programmer, but I don't think it's like that. But seriously, if you can get an x86 on an SNES cart, perhaps an Atom, please get in touch. I'd love to have one of those.

The CPUs in the Nintendo 64 and Sony's PS1, PS2, and PSP systems are based on the MIPS architecture. It has a similar branch delay slot.

The SA-1 has a two-stage pipeline and does not require this.

Yeah, SNES homebrew is about to take off any minute now. Aaaaany minute now...

Hahah. That's what we need. Pan's SuperFX scrolling BBS trainer ROM. "Now the sprite letters bounce, change colors wildly and rotozoom all at once!"

The NES/FC gets a lot more attention because, well, fanboyism.

Yeah, it's incredible when you realize there's at least a hundred active NES emulators, and four SNES ones. I don't know whether to be sad (lack of help on researching new things -- sans occasional miracles ala blargg's S-DSP), or happy (I can actually do something useful for the scene -- with Nestopia and Nintendulator ... I couldn't come close. I'd off myself by the time I got the 34th input controller. "Pokkun Moguraa Tap-tap mat? ... WHY?!")

Ah, and I still haven't gotten around to emulating Felon's banana register yet :/

But you've got RAM, and load/store instructions.

RAM and LINK are hardly an alternative to built-in stack and call intrinsics. Sure, you can do it. But why not use a processor that already has it natively?

If an assembler could generate machine code from the more readable syntax, then why couldn't a debugger do it in reverse?

Well, you can split things up easily, eg:
to r13
loop
with r15

Hard to group to r13 + with r15 into move r13,r15; but I guess the same is true when you're writing that assembler code in the first place. Fair enough, I rescind that argument.

I'm not saying the SuperFX is the best thing ever. I just find these kinds of co-processors interesting. Whether or not anything useful will come out of it is irrelevant to me.

Yes, it's no doubt a neat chip. And it can obviously do very cool things. The whole point of my argument was that the SA-1 was better in virtually every way. That's all. If you don't want to use the best, why not use the OBC1 or DSP-2? :P

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 10:52 am**

byuu wrote:.
What exactly do you mean? Can't the CPU just enter a RAM loop?
Yes, but there is "only" 128k WRAM available. Not fun to sacrifice half of it for your program loop. With the SA-1, both your CPU program and SA-1 program can execute right off the game pack ROM. The SA-1 memory controller will stall the SA-1 only when required.

It is actually possible to have a additional seperate ROM / RAM on a SFX cart according to the official SNES dev manual. I guess this is so the SFX could execute code from it's own ROM and keep the main game data on a seperate ROM.

Posted: **Fri May 29, 2009 1:10 pm**

Well about the SFX it is probably much better to keep the 65816 programm in ROM and execute the SFX programm, that only takes order from the main programm to do a lot of math and plot instructions, into WRAM. Also the main programm could chnage the SFX programm depending on which features it want for its graphics.

Posted: **Sun Oct 04, 2009 10:53 am**

cybertron wrote:I am pleased to announce the SNES flash carts are now on sale on http://www.mash-mods.com! I have gotten some interest from forum members so I though I would let you know. I can also do support here.

Currently there are only 16 programmers and 21 cartridges available.

hi cybertron,

any news regarding tototek flashcart support?

Posted: **Tue Oct 06, 2009 11:14 am**

I don't have a tototek cart so I can't really look at it. I gave the code to some people so they could port/debug the tototek support from uCON64 but no one seems to have made any progress. Apparently it enters a weird mode for programming where it is mapped differently. Maybe one day someone will make a breakthrough.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:14 am**

60 $ for the cart
55 $ for the programmer

man you must be kidding!

it must be a hard work to do such a project, but 115 $ for one cart and one programmer... no way!

the second thing ist, that the cart only take games up to 4 MB!
no tales of phantasia?

sorry, for that price, i build my own games via eproms...

much more work, but a lot of fun!
and then u have all cartridges @ home, not a little fuzzy 4mb flashcart.

for people who dont want to play... buy this! its the easiest way to test all kinds of roms, patches and so on...

for gamers.... its shit!

its a heaven on earth to have a, tales of phantasia english, secret of mana 2 eng, star ocean eng & treasure hunter g cartridge.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2009 11:48 am**

Cali wrote: for gamers.... its shit!

its a heaven on earth to have a, tales of phantasia english, secret of mana 2 eng, star ocean eng & treasure hunter g cartridge.

To be honnest $120 isn't THAT bad a dev-kit. I'm pretty sure such a kit would have been at the very least 10 times more expensive back then in the SNES area.
And if you only want gaming, honnestly emulators are all you need, now that PCs are fast enough to accurately emulate the SNES while applying nice graphic filters. It's also safer for your saves.

Posted: **Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:56 pm**

I don't see how you can possibly think hacking apart cartridges and putting EPROMs in them is so superior to a Flash cartridge. I also don't see how you can complain about the cost. The only reason your EPROMs are cheap are because they are obsolete basically trash kicking its way around for place to place and eventually you will have a harder time finding them and the price for them will increase.

I also REALLY don't see how you can say the flash cart is bad "for gamers". That makes absolutely no sense at all. If you are a gamer, you want to play games. Presumably you have very limited to no skills. So plugging in a cartridge and programmer and using a menu to put a game on the cartridge is ideal for a "gamer". Making a cartridge with EPROMs is absolutely not for everyone and definitely not "for gamers". I don't even understand how you convinced yourself that it was such a great deal to build all those cartridges. I have no idea what you spent but for less than $100 you could get a Backup Device/Copier to play all those games with next to no effort at all.

Honestly building cartridges with EPROMs when it's not your own creation seems to me just to be for two uses, pure piracy or perhaps some sort of collection type piece. And I think alot of people have been asking about how to do it lately because they think they can do it and sell illegal copies of games to make tons of money. Or they some how think like you do and think it's some amazing way to play your rom sets on a real system.

Of all the ways to put either homebrew or your ROM files onto a cartridge to play on a real system EPROMs are the least appealing option. Personally I find the best option to be a Copier type device like the Super Wild Card or PowerPAK (even though it isn't a copier) with Flash cartridges like this one and the Tototek one being a close second and EPROM hacked cartridges a distant last ditch third place option. Unless you're making your own game and need to build permanent carts and even then Flash might be a better option.

Posted: **Mon Oct 26, 2009 8:03 pm**

Isnt bunnyboy working on a snes powerpak

Posted: **Tue Oct 27, 2009 1:30 am**

I don't believe he ever made such an announcement. There are other SNES projects out there including one with the idea of loading roms from a SD memory card.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 8:29 am**

Do you expect me to design, test, manufacture and sell PCBs for free? Do you know how expensive electronics are in small quantities? I basically paid a few thousand dollars out of my own pocket until some sales came in and probably just broke even.

That being said the flash cart is not for everyone, there are many other possibilities.

I am working on a SD card based cartridge now. The hardware and CPLD is basically done, I just need to write the menu software that runs on the SNES. I have been really lazy in this regard because learning 65816 again is going to be annoying.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:22 am**

I really hope your SNES SD card project goes well. I'd definitely be interested in that.

Posted: **Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:00 pm**

MottZilla wrote:I really hope your SNES SD card project goes well. I'd definitely be interested in that.

I'm interested too!

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Flash Carts on sale!

Re: Flash Carts on sale!