Brazilians

[Petruza]

I agree. It's not bad as long as two similar economies are involved.
But free trade between Developed and Developing countries ( a nice euphemism for poor countries ) had pretty bad results in the 20th and 21st centuries so far.

[Disch]

Another party can flood your market with cheap goods, thereby driving domestic producers out of business.

I agree 100%.

In the US imported goods HAVE to be artificially marked up or else it would devestate our economy. Our higher regulations and wage laws make the cost of production much, much higher than that of other countries *cough*China*cough*

If imported goods could be purchased for a quarter of the price of domestic goods, nobody would buy domestic, and companies would be folding left and right.

If anything, I think imported goods and outsourced jobs should be taxed/penalized even more to encourage/push companies to keep labor and production in-house.

But then that turns into a fine line. We have to form relationships with other countries, and it's give and take. If we start unreasonably taxing the hell out of import shipments, they'll start taxing the hell out of our stuff, and it will bring international trade to a standstill.

[tepples]

You raise taxes to boost domestic production.

But did it have the intended effect of promoting the construction of IC fabs in Brazil and Argentina?

it may not make sense from an environmental point of view.

Then tax based on the estimated pollutants, not the MSRP of the good.

Our higher regulations and wage laws make the cost of production much, much higher than that of other countries *cough*China*cough*

That and land costs more.

[Petruza]

You raise taxes to boost domestic production.

But did it have the intended effect of promoting the construction of IC fabs in Brazil and Argentina?

Sorry I don't know what "IC fabs" means

[never-obsolete]

integrated circuit fabrication plants

[Petruza]

No, but you can't expect very good results on such a screwed up economy as ours. I don't say that the state intervening in economy is a magic cure, but I strongly object that state intervention in foreign trade equals corruption.

[blargg]

I guess I meant that government itself is almost by definition corrupt, in the way it interferes with voluntary exchanges of private property. BTW, I wasn't saying anything positive about the US; it too is not a free market, and full of government controls over private exchanges.

[Disch]

A "free market" is a positive thing? Not in my book.

Government control is necessary to prevent abusive employers and monopolizing.

Take out governmental regulations and we're back to the industrial revolution where 3 companies run the entire country and everyone is poverty stricken, slaving away for pennies a day, and dying in their 30s.

A lot of people think government control is a bad thing, but really there are some areas where it really is a great thing. Economic issues and international trade are definately areas where the government should always be involved.

TOO MUCH government control can of course be a bad thing. The key is finding the right balance. While I can't say that the US is perfect (or even the best out there), I can say that it's not terrible and there are lots of places where it's much, much worse.

But there's no "perfection" line. What seems like a perfect balance for someone will seem too unfair to someone else. So whatever.

[Petruza]

... corrupt, in the way it interferes with voluntary exchanges of private property...

We still have two very different concepts of what is corruption.
My view is more similar to Wikipedia's

# Political corruption: the abuse of public power, office, or resources by government officials or employees for personal gain, e.g. by extortion, soliciting or offering bribes.

[tepples]

Government interference in a market is called distortion. Copyright is an example of a distortion that was intended to be positive but hasn't always turned out so well, due in part to the movie industry's control over the major news media and in part to (alleged) gratuities paid by employees of motion picture publishers to legislators' reelection campaigns. Corruption is government action in exchange for a gratuity; it gets confused with distortion because corruption usually causes distortion.

[Petruza]

Government interference in a market is called distortion...

I agree.
But again, a distortion is a displacement from a normal state. It depends on what we see as normal or ideal. Imposing trading rates by the state is indeed a distortion from a free, unregulated market. That's a distortion if we consider free market as the normal state, as the ideal, as how things should be.
Someone could instead see that a few private dominant corporations controlling the market and setting its prices, is a distortion.

[koitsu]

What's any of this got to do with the number of NES-addicted weirdos from Brazil (present company excluded)? :D

[tepples]

NES addiction comes from tariffs distorting the market so as to make everything but famiclones cost prohibitive. That's why it seems there are a brazilian of them.

[Petruza]

Well, one thing led to another, lots of off-topic, if you read the whole thread you'll understand

[Petruza]

NES addiction comes from tariffs distorting the market so as to make everything but famiclones cost prohibitive. That's why it seems there are a brazilian of them.

LOL
Brazillion, I'd suggest. Interesting term