Level design pet peeves.

[Ian A]

A lot of NES games had those floors that looked like floors but you'd fall right through if you walked over them. In castlevania II, you could tell by throwing holy water every couple of steps. In Zelda II sometimes a flying enemy would drop fire that'd also fall through the floor giving you a heads up, but most of the time there'd be NO indication that ANYTHING was wrong. You'd either end up dead, or be force to backtrack anywhere from a small area to half the god damned level (here's lookin' at you Great Palace!)

I HATED this crap, which usually came off to me as lazy game design. Any similar things that you hated or would like to see avoided?

[Bregalad]

Something I really hate is when they just re-use a background map as-is (or barely palette swapping it) instead of actually designing a new area.

[tokumaru]

Something I really hate is when they just re-use a background map as-is (or barely palette swapping it) instead of actually designing a new area.

That is called level map compression! XD

[Ian A]

Something I really hate is when they just re-use a background map as-is (or barely palette swapping it) instead of actually designing a new area.

Metroid was SUPER guilty of this! I like metroid a lot though.

I was a HUGE star tropics fan, and was really disappointed that the sequel reused tons of parts from the first, but with worse control.

[Bananmos]

Something I always hated as a kid was the instant death from falling into pits design. And that especially goes for games where you die instantly from jumping a few blocks down instead of taking the stairs... Castlevania of course, is the prime example of this "falling from any height will never kill you UNLESS you happen to fall off the currently visible screen" philosophy.

Kid Icarus's vertically scrolling levels are even worse in this aspect, and I always had a grudge against this as a child... sometimes, the floor you stood solidly on has just disappeared a few pixels below the screen, and already it's an instant death area!

Then again, my all-time-favorite game Battletoads has levels like these too, so I suppose you'll always forgive a game that's good enough for this lame hazard. But it still don't make it right... :)

[Ian A]

Something I always hated as a kid was the instant death from falling into pits design. And that especially goes for games where you die instantly from jumping a few blocks down instead of taking the stairs... Castlevania of course, is the prime example of this "falling from any height will never kill you UNLESS you happen to fall off the currently visible screen" philosophy.

Enemies who sole purpose is to knock you into those pits are awful too. The blue blobs in Zelda II and the medusa heads in castlvania have been responsible for numerous cheap deaths.

[Bregalad]

That is called level map compression! XD

No, I wasn't mentionning re-using metatiles or even groups of them, I was talking about re-using a whole screen. You can have your levels compressed while never re-using anything, I have that in my game (in fact my engine don't even allow re-using anything, if you try you'll end up having it the same as the original as the warps will also be the same as the original).

Metroid was SUPER guilty of this! I like metroid a lot though.

Yes, and I always hated this game, this is only one of the reason, but it's definitely significant. Bad music, terrible control, poor graphics, the "your life start at 30 no matter which level you are" problem and the horrible beeping noise when you get low of energy probably complete the thing.
Without a doubt the most overrated piece of crap in videogame history.

That being said, there is also modern games I like, such as Tales of Phantasia and Star Ocean, that did that (and I find it very lame, and totally inexcusable from games that were supposed to be the pinacle of technology when they were released). Hey even FF7 re-uses screens in mako reactors and underground tunnel (however that's just like a few re-used screens on a 200+ hand-drawn pre-rendered screens so it's really excusable).

[Disch]

Enemies who sole purpose is to knock you into those pits are awful too. The blue blobs in Zelda II and the medusa heads in castlvania have been responsible for numerous cheap deaths.

This also pretty much describes every enemy in the Ninja Gaiden series, as well.

Yes, and I always hated this game, this is only one of the reason, but it's definitely significant

Agreed. Metroid 1 was terrible, I'm surpised the series exploded as big as it did.

Although pretty much everything from Super Metroid and on was completely awesome, so it ended up being a good thing.

[blargg]

Kid Icarus's vertically scrolling levels are even worse in this aspect, and I always had a grudge against this as a child... sometimes, the floor you stood solidly on has just disappeared a few pixels below the screen, and already it's an instant death area!

amen! This violates your mental model, which says that the thing you were just on is still there, just a little farther down. It's the same annoying violation that games like Ninja Gaiden do, where they respawn enemies if you scroll their spawn point just slightly off screen and back on. Your mental model says you already dealt with that enemy, and that a slight scroll in one direction and then back won't cause any change in the world, and yet it does.

[tokumaru]

It's the same annoying violation that games like Ninja Gaiden do, where they respawn enemies if you scroll their spawn point just slightly off screen and back on.

I hate enemies who can't remember they are dead.

[Bananmos]

Yeah, "good" old Ninja Gaiden... I remember almost beating my controller to death before completing that game as a kid, and yet the storyline and the cool cinematic scenes made me stay with the game and forgive this abomination of game programming.

Then about a year ago, I figured I'd play through it again on a dull rainy day... I gave up at level 5, saying there's no reason to put myself through this sadistic crap anymore just to watch an ending scene I could just as well watch on youtube. Oh man did we put up with retarted game logic as kids back then! Guess everything wasn't better back in the old days...

(and I should again emphasize that Battletoads is my all-time-favorite that I still get a kick out of beating every few years, and I've completed the "Rainbow V challenge" in Viewtiful Joe, so I'm certainly not the one who'd diss a game due to difficulty alone)

[tepples]

A lot of NES games had those floors that looked like floors but you'd fall right through if you walked over them.

They're trap doors, and they're not limited to the NES. Super Mario 64 has a few of them before you even get to the basement.

Something I always hated as a kid was the instant death from falling into pits design.

Would you rather have had the screen start rapidly scrolling for two seconds until the hero finally lands on something and breaks his bones?

I was talking about re-using a whole screen.

Don't ask me about the repeated screens in Super Mario Land world 1-1 that made me think I was in SMB1 world 4-4.

It's the same annoying violation that games like Ninja Gaiden do, where they respawn enemies if you scroll their spawn point just slightly off screen and back on.

SMB2 has this problem, but I find it slightly more excusable in the Mega Man and Kirby games. In Mega Man, enemies can be shot to produce power-ups, and in Kirby, enemies can be swallowed to make power-ups. Having permanent enemy death could leave a level unwinnable if you defeat the only enemy with a needed power-up and then lose the power-up before you need to use it *cough*Hammer in Kirby*cough*. And don't get me started on running out of money in Pokemon even after having defeated all trainers in the area, so I can't buy needed supplies.

More lists of pet peeves: No Twinkie | Fake Difficulty

[koitsu]

Kid Icarus's vertically scrolling levels are even worse in this aspect, and I always had a grudge against this as a child... sometimes, the floor you stood solidly on has just disappeared a few pixels below the screen, and already it's an instant death area!

Funny -- my friends and I often use the taking-the-piss phrase "{person} pressed Down in Kid Icarus".

[UncleSporky]

If we're talking about NES games, the thing that annoys me most is poor physics. I've got a really hard time playing games like Castlevania when many deaths are due to a lack of maneuverability. Normally game balance should solve that but I still just have an issue with my hero playing sluggishly. As another example, try playing Castle of Dragon. Ugh.

I find things like reused map screens more forgivable. SMB1 reused both individual screens and graphical tiles in general and I don't feel like it suffered much for it.

And don't get me started on running out of money in Pokemon even after having defeated all trainers in the area, so I can't buy needed supplies.

Yeah, if you're talking about the first Pokemon games on Gameboy, your options are beating the Elite Four repeatedly (I think this worked, but regardless you had to do it at the end of the game), Meowth's Payday attack for like 10-50 pokebucks per fight (and he was only available in one version), or a spare Nugget and the Missingno trick which wasn't really a good idea for your save file.

[Jedi QuestMaster]

Everything in Battletoads:

-whoever dies takes both players back to the last checkpoint
-lack of time to decipher what the hell is going to happen in the next part of the level, resulting in a trial & error game
-one-hit kills
-sudden incline in difficulty (Turbo Tunnel)
-terrible controls
-terrible physics (The Revolution) which is also guilty of the "platform is off the bottom of the screen, so you die" programming
-12 freakin stages that had to be beaten in one sitting (warps do help, though)

Yeah, this game sucks

Edit:

Bad music, terrible control, poor graphics, the "your life start at 30 no matter which level you are" problem and the horrible beeping noise when you get low of energy probably complete the thing.

Hey! I take great offense to that.

Hiro Tanaka is my favorite video game composer of all time! Why is it that when someone hates a game they also hate the music? I never get that.