NES-101 nintendo top loader website - tons of info - mods

[game-tech.us]

I put together a site with all the useless and useful info i've gained about the beloved nintendo top loader over the last several years.
Let me know what you think.
http://nes-101.wikispaces.com/

[tepples]

Nitpick 1: "This is still an original Nintendo so there are no compatibility issues with any games or any accessories" except for one game that requires the lockout chip and Xious's coming adapter for Famicom audio and Famicom expansion controllers. It's not nearly as widespread as on SA-1 and SDD-1 games for Super NES, as only the original (not reproduction) version of NWC 1990 is known to need a host lockout chip to set up the mapper.

Nitpick 2: A lot of Europe-exclusive games, such as Asterix, don't work on any 60 Hz machine no matter what lockout chip they have or lack. They rely on the fact that the PAL PPU has a vertical blank significantly longer than the 2270 or so cycles of the vertical blank on the Famicom or NTSC NES.

[game-tech.us]

Nitpick 2: A lot of Europe-exclusive games, such as Asterix, don't work on any 60 Hz machine no matter what lockout chip they have or lack. They rely on the fact that the PAL PPU has a vertical blank significantly longer than the 2270 or so cycles of the vertical blank on the Famicom or NTSC NES.

Hmm, is there a comprehensive list of what euro games do and do not work on the top loader?

[leonk]

Would you care to share how to add the RCA connectors to the top-loader and avoid any of the vertical lines?

I'm sure you didn't want this post to simply be an advertisement for your services...

[Dwedit]

Could Asterix be hacked to make it NTSC compatible? I see it uses an unrolled LDA (nn),Y \ STA 2007 \ INY loop to do drawing, and also has blank tiles at the bottom of the screen.
Maybe throw in a DMC IRQ or something to turn off the screen early. Seems like the game needs 18 or 19 extra scanlines to pull it off.

[tepples]

Maybe throw in a DMC IRQ or something to turn off the screen early. Seems like the game needs 18 or 19 extra scanlines to pull it off.

Do you know how to make a DMC IRQ fire at exactly the same time every frame? Or do you mean use a DMC IRQ to trigger some lines above sprite 0?

[Dwedit]

So the IRQ trigger time may vary by a couple scanlines. But you can sync to the end of a scanline by reading OAM data, so you know a safe time to turn the screen off.

[game-tech.us]

Would you care to share how to add the RCA connectors to the top-loader and avoid any of the vertical lines?

I'm sure you didn't want this post to simply be an advertisement for your services...

There's way more on my website than my mod services.
Heh you're the guy that got this all going, all the answers are in the thread you started in this forum, you have my gratitude!

[koitsu]

Would you care to share how to add the RCA connectors to the top-loader and avoid any of the vertical lines?

I'm sure you didn't want this post to simply be an advertisement for your services...

There's way more on my website than my mod services.

I spent some time this afternoon reading your site. No, there really isn't much else on the site you linked in your first post other than advertising your mod services (ex. how to re-brighten plastic and clean cart connectors). I don't have a problem with that, but still. It would be quite cool of you if did a thorough walk-through of the mod you do -- specifically any PCB re-wiring or PCB part replacement -- with regards to addressing the vertical line problem. I think most folks care about solving that problem and not so much about a power switch LED, over-clocking (...), or faux-stereo.

The thread in question is long and difficult to follow, but there are evidence/statements in there which indicate the RCA mod doesn't solve the problem. If your mod is different than what's discussed in that thread, then maybe combining the two sets of information will clue folks in to where the real problem with the output lies.

Basically what I'm saying is this: I'd love to send you my top-loader and pay for the modification, except there's absolutely no indication in the above thread that the problem is solved with an RCA mod. Hopefully you understand my confusion. :-)

Also, regarding the user/customer who's banging on gongs over heat emissions -- I know nothing about EE, but I've seen this problem when there's all sorts of power-related voodoo going on within parts on a PCB. What I'm getting at: does the "updated" version of the NES top loader (meaning the version Nintendo came out with, not an RCA-modded unit) emit the same amount of heat as the non-updated version? My gut feeling says it probably doesn't.

Thanks!

[Banshaku]

I didn't say anything from the beginning but it seems other people felt the same way. For now, until I can get information that explain how to mod a nes, it feels more like advertising a service than anything else, especially since it was your first post.

At the least it still related to the nes and not spamming, which is a good thing but more explanation on how to mod it would make more sense since you say that your website contain useful information but that's very subjective.

[bucky o'hare]

To be fair, even if he's advertising a service, there is a lot more information there than what someone would normally have up if they really were only trying to sell something. He's narrating his process, which helps provide information. He's making an effort to explain what's going on, but as others have said, it could use more details in certain sections.

My advice is less about the content (I'll let everyone else handle that!), and more about the display-- Make it easier on the eyes! Walls of text are always much trickier to read through. I suggest spaces between each paragraph, and short titles / headers for each section. Something like this:

Introduction:

The NES-101 or "top loader" was released around 1993 and few were made, making it very collectible and one of the greatest reasons to get one, no one else will have one. They are also superior to the original front loading (toaster) unit as the cartridge connector never wears out and with little cleaning the game loads the first time every time - no more blinking or blowing or frustration!!! This is still an original Nintendo so there are no compatibility issues with any games or any accessories, if it works on a front loader it will work on this unit as well. I have heard many complaints that newer clones like yobo and messiah won’t play every game released for Nintendo, but you get what you pay for...

The top loader was redesigned to be a cheap console for people to buy instead of the new and relatively expensive super Nintendo. I've heard Nintendo did some research and thought not many people were using the composite output on the original front loader so didn't bother putting it on the new top loader. Maybe they were right, but that’s just not the case these days and that’s why I mod them for composite output.

The Composite Video Mod:

About the video output upgrade I do: From the factory the top loader only had an r/f hookup and its video quality is poor, that is why I mod these units with rca jack type composite outputs. You will never worry about the r/f switch going bad and being able to replace it, and history already speaks for itself! I have been modding these units since 2003!

I've had many people ask if the lines on the tv screen, common with the top loaders, are improved with this mod and YES they are nonexistent Also, the overall picture quality is as near to a front loaders video output as it gets, they're hard to distinguish in side by side comparison. The composite output is better than the original r/f as it doesn't have to go through rf modulation or a crappy rf switch, just straight from the top loader's source video output to the tv input or whatever input you hook it up to!

The r/f output no longer works due to this mod, but believe me you won't care! Outputs are color coded rca jacks for easy hookup. Audio right and left are wired mono since the machine is not capable of true stereo without another serious mod (read below), but both were installed for easy hook up to a home theater.

I've also found an alternate method of audio/video output, instead of 3 rca jacks, I found a headphone style connector that will do the same job and fit into the r/f jack hole. This means the shell will not have to have the sticker removed and 3 holes drilled in it! Plus you will not be able to tell right away that it’s even been modded. It does require a special cord, but I will supply it if this is the kind of mod you desire.

etc

Also just make sure the sections are well organized overall. Your pricing is bolded somewhere in the middle, which seems like a very odd spot for it. Perhaps you should have a separate section of the site which goes into more detail on services and contact.

You've got the foundations of a handy resource, keep it up!

[game-tech.us]

I spent some time this afternoon reading your site. No, there really isn't much else on the site you linked in your first post other than advertising your mod services (ex. how to re-brighten plastic and clean cart connectors).

Less than 1/3 of the content is directly related to my mod services, I did a word count.

The thread in question is long and difficult to follow, but there are evidence/statements in there which indicate the RCA mod doesn't solve the problem. .... Hopefully you understand my confusion.

Yes its a long thread, but the info is there and I dont care to repeat it and act like I had anything to do with it other than testing it on my own and finding out what works.

What I'm getting at: does the "updated" version of the NES top loader (meaning the version Nintendo came out with, not an RCA-modded unit) emit the same amount of heat as the non-updated version? My gut feeling says it probably doesn't.

You lost me somewhat, do you mean the redesigned nes-101 compared to an original nes-101? If thats what you mean its irrelevant since no one can get a hold of one. Also i'm just now starting to research heat inside the top loader, hence the whole section at the bottom of my page.

[blargg]

Agreed, the whole site (page?) is filled with pitches for the products/services, but it's also filled with lots of interesting information, mainly an apparently large sampling of NES units and the variations between them. Those heat pictures were awesome! I've recently been trying various wall warts for my consoles and network gear, trying to decide which is the best. I'd been thinking about this very thing, being able to see exactly what is heating up with various configurations; too bad such a camera is probably quite expensive.

I second requests for information on the mods. I only think it could improve business, at least for people who are skeptical about the build quality. Some pictures of the internal mod work would go a long way. I think it's great that these kinds of modifications are in enough demand that it's a marketable thing.

[leonk]

From my own personal experience of the RCA mod, it does improve the video quality, but it's nowhere near the quality of the front loader.

If the front loader is the goal, then here's how I see it:

- nes-101 no mod - 75% video quality (due to vertical bars)
- nes-101 with mod - 92% (vertical bars very difficult to see, except if you look for them, like on games like SMB1 or 3 in starting screen where everything is bright). But the mod does have a flaw, it's about 1-2 levels darker than front loader in brightness.

In comparison, I also recently got the FC Twin. It's as bright as the front loader, but it too has terrible vertical bars.

When I saw your web site stating that there are no vertical bars, that's why I was under the impression that you got a new circuit board design. Also, the original thread I started required you to remove and reuse some parts from a front loader (i.e. rebuilding the front loader circuit board on PCB). But it seams that you didn't do that (300+ mods suggests this).

Lastly, I assume you have a rare Nintendo RCA modded system, or one with no vertical bars (due to the video you produced, and images). The thing that I found interesting was the redone bridge rectifier area. It seems that Nintendo switched from a single bridge rectifier IC to using diodes to reproduce one. Can you confirm? Can you produce high quality images of that section? This might be the source of all the vertical bars.

[game-tech.us]

From my own personal experience of the RCA mod, it does improve the video quality, but it's nowhere near the quality of the front loader.

If the front loader is the goal, then here's how I see it:

- nes-101 no mod - 75% video quality (due to vertical bars)
- nes-101 with mod - 92% (vertical bars very difficult to see, except if you look for them, like on games like SMB1 or 3 in starting screen where everything is bright). But the mod does have a flaw, it's about 1-2 levels darker than front loader in brightness.

Not been my experience, I actually had some great video captured, but I couldn't get it to load with that crap youtube editor, i'll get back to it and get it posted. I'm no expert visual comparator, but I couldn't see any lines and minimal brightness difference.

In comparison, I also recently got the FC Twin. It's as bright as the front loader, but it too has terrible vertical bars.

Never had one, but good to know.

When I saw your web site stating that there are no vertical bars, that's why I was under the impression that you got a new circuit board design. Also, the original thread I started required you to remove and reuse some parts from a front loader (i.e. rebuilding the front loader circuit board on PCB). But it seams that you didn't do that (300+ mods suggests this).

If you read the thread closely the parts are available in the top loader, but I saw no difference with or without the choke (fc2). The transistor was easy to cross reference and find a cheap replacement.

Lastly, I assume you have a rare Nintendo RCA modded system, or one with no vertical bars (due to the video you produced, and images). The thing that I found interesting was the redone bridge rectifier area. It seems that Nintendo switched from a single bridge rectifier IC to using diodes to reproduce one. Can you confirm? Can you produce high quality images of that section? This might be the source of all the vertical bars.

The one I have is not a rca or a/v version, but it is a redesigned board just with r/f out. Its in the video description. Yes the power circuits are different, but I still whole heartedly believe its all about the circuit board design running traces in the wrong places picking up interference, as stated in the thread by I forget who. After trying all the variations, like cutting traces close to the ppu (didn't work), lifting the pin worked, it worked well.