nesdev.org

Bregalad wrote:So, in summary, it has been argued the MD's graphics are 100 times more limited than SNES', MD's FM sound sounds like a joke compared to SNES's Wavetable sounds (when the chip is used correctly, that is), and now we're debating whenever the MD's CPU is much faster, a little faster or not even any faster at all ?

Faster CPU means software rendering without having to include a coprocessor (DSP, SFX, SVP).

A faster CPU is good for computers, but for consoles, it's really the graphics and sounds that matters.

When the game's graphics model doesn't map easily onto that of the video chip, the CPU has to take over. The Super NES is better for some kinds of racing games because it can do mode 7, but the Genesis might win at software rendering of first-person shooters; compare Zero Tolerance (MD) to Wolf3D (SNES) or Jurassic Park (SNES).

Even today's action games typically doesn't handle more than a dozen of bullets and enemies on screen at a time

Google Touhou to see the exception that proves the rule. I don't think any of the three major 16-bit consoles can handle bullet curtains like this.

And I didn't even talk about the controllers... The MD was originally made to compete with the NES (which it did quite well in fact !). But then the SNES came out and booom !

If you mean "boom" as in 6-button pads became standard, then I agree. At least I got one with my used Genesis.

I certainly think Sega would have been better off with a number of different hardware decisions. Bump the MD up to 128 Colors from the start with 64 for BG and 64 for Sprites is just one. Another would have been to have instead of releasing the Sega CD as it was, cut out some of the extra stuff (like second 68000 cpu) and instead add a VDP that would function similar to the 32X's VDP overlay, only with the purpose to add either just sprites or bg layers with their own colors to boost colors that way. Another thing about the Sega CD is again I think they should have cut alot of the extra hardware in it and gone for a more PC-Engine approach where all the unit would be is a CD-ROM drive, with an upgradable Cartridge CD-ROM System Card.

Then ofcourse I think they never should have released the 32X. And the Sega Saturn could have used a more thought out design that was less complex and easier for developers to put to use, like the PS1. Only thing I can complain about with the DreamCast is they should have known better than to let the system have such a terrible security issue. And I suppose also perhaps the 1GB Discs were not going to be enough in the long run.

Despite these things though I do enjoy all of Sega's systems.

Bregalad, I'll say again that I fail to see the "obvious" superiority of the SNES over the MD. You keep bashing the MD's sound, but I remember half of the SNES games I played sounding like shit because the sound was muffled as hell. A lot of these games sounded like they were played over a telephone or something. You might claim that "they weren't using the hardware right", but that doesn't change the fact that half of the games sucked on the sound department.

I think both consoles were perfectly able to compete with each other, and there is no "obvious superiority" on either side. And they did compete side by side for a long time I think, without one console having to mandatorily kick the other's ass.

I bet you like to bash the MD because you probably played a lot of SNES as a kid, and thought it was the most awesome thing ever back then, and only got to look at the MD recently (maybe even using emulators only), and of course under that perspective it will not look like much. I had a MD as a kid, but I played a lot of SNES at friends' houses and I always thought both consoles were very good.

tepples wrote:compare Zero Tolerance (MD) to Wolf3D (SNES) or Jurassic Park (SNES).

I don't even think Zero Tolerance is the better looking 3D shooter on the MD. I find Bloodshot / Battle Frenzy very interesting, and also Duke Nukem (too bad that the overall presentation of this game sucks, because the raycasting aspect is pretty good).

It's true those games looks awesome to say they are 16-bit - but I'm not into 1st person shooters anyway.

And I'm sorry, but the sound on the MD is HORRIBLE. Those videos just reminded it to me the hard way. Any noise out of it just make my hears bleed. Perhaps it's those unfiltered very high frequencies that hurts my heardrums. Or it's just it remind me how MIDIs sounded on my very old pc - that is that they sounded like crap.

About the graphic parts, it's true I exaggerated the difference, especially after viewing those videos. Let's say the SNES is supperior, having much more colors and more BG layers - but only a little supperior.

Anyway it's games that are fun not the console - so no matter what are the system's possibilities, a good game on a lower system will always be better than a bad game on a higher system. In this sense, I fully respect that people might think their favorites MD games are the best. It's just that I'm into RPGs, and the SNES is THE conosle of RPGs. I'm sure someone will point me to MD RPGs, pehaps some good ones, but to be honest I'll likely not be playing them more than a few minutes.

I bet you like to bash the MD because you probably played a lot of SNES as a kid, and thought it was the most awesome thing ever back then, and only got to look at the MD recently (maybe even using emulators only), and of course under that perspective it will not look like much. I had a MD as a kid, but I played a lot of SNES at friends' houses and I always thought both consoles were very good.

If 14-yo is being a kid, then yes you bet it. (as a younger kid I was playing PC and PS1 games).
Note that I don't say the MD is that much a bad console or wathever - I just want to point out that it IS technically inferior to the SNES, and significantly so. I'll amit any day that the MD is technically supperior to the NES, despite the fact I personally like the NES and NES games much better - I won't deny it.
Maybe a better example would be GBA vs PSP. When the PSP came out is was maybe 800 times supperior to the GBA in terms of graphics and sound. Nevertheless I always prefered the GBA console and games by a LONG way, but I won't try to find stupid arguments to prove the GBA's nonexistent technical superiority. I'd rather say that despite being technically inferior I just like it better and that's it. (note that I also prefer the GBA to the DS, because I still use my DS 70% of the time to play GBA games )