Tips on buying programmer.

Nadia · Post by **Nadia** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 4:36 am

I am planning to buy a cheap eeprom programmer. I have seen a number of them already but still confused.

What are the things we should keep in mind when buying a programmer?

Cost is a big factor for me. I would like to go for one of the cheapest ones.

arfink · Post by **arfink** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:01 am

I would say it doesn't really matter that much. For NES development you'll probably be using mostly older DIP parts anyway, and any programmer that's worth any money at all will support them. 27C and 29F series chips come to mind as possibly the most commonly needed, and nearly any programmer except for very old ones will support those. The only other thing you might possibly consider is the purchasing of a PLCC adapter socket to go with your programmer, but that's not a big deal either.

tokumaru · Post by **tokumaru** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:42 am

Another important thing is that it connects to your PC through the USB port. Even if your PC has a parallel port (which is rare nowadays), they don't always work with EPROM programmers.

Bregalad · Post by **Bregalad** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:49 am

Then you might as well invest in a powepak, which I doubt will be more expensive than an EPROM programmer + soldering iron + solder + game bit + EPROMs.
Unless you plan to sell quantities of bootlegs, in this case this board is not for you.

Post by **tepples** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 12:05 pm

Bregalad wrote:Unless you plan to sell quantities of bootlegs, in this case this board is not for you.

By "this board" did you mean "this circuit board" or "this BBS"? If the latter, then the technical details around selling copies of homebrew that you developed, or homebrew that someone else has developed and distributed under a free software license, are all but identical to those around selling infringing copies of proprietary commercial software.

Bregalad · Post by **Bregalad** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:27 pm

Sorry I was talking about people that "kindly" ask advice here for making repros of commercial games and in fact they just sell them as authentic games. There has been quite a few of them.

That's why when I see how many people come on this board just to make bootlegs of commercial games I'm really suspicious about it - and I always advertise for the powepak. Honestly since I have mine I never bothered to use any of my old devcards ever again. The only reason I might get them out again is if I need to test something on a true mapper that the powerpak could be emulating incorrectly, or test power-up behavior. (and yes I wasted too much money on my programmer right before the powepak was out but that's another story)

Since all the people asking here wants either to play existing games they don't have a cartridge of, or test their software, the powerpak excels at both.

MottZilla · Post by **MottZilla** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:34 pm

For a cheap buy decent programmer you are probably looking to spend around $100USD. The PowerPAK costs $135. Basically unless you are a pirate or a software developer making their own cartridges, the PowerPAK is the better buy. There are "cheap" EPROM programmers but they require an older PC with a parallel port and more knowledge to operate them correctly.

arfink · Post by **arfink** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:58 pm

IMO, having the programming hardware is a real nice thing if you're into DIY hardware stuff. I know alot of people here are all about the code and don't care so much about doing hardware for the sheer fun of it. Also useful if you do more stuff than NES, IE, Neo Geo development, or tinkering with arcade boards etc.

There are some Chinese programmers, specifically one made by Genius, that go for about $40 to $50 shipped and are USB enabled. If you can make do with software that's partially in Chinese or badly translated into english then it's a great option for hobby use.

Post by **Memblers** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 3:09 pm

Yeah, the Willem burner is the "el cheapo" ROM burner. If you're only burning a couple types of EPROM, and not very often at that, it's worth it. You do have to mess around with jumpers and dipswitches, but that only matters if you're using a bunch of different chips.

Still, I'm sure you could get the convenience of a chinese-made USB burner for basically the same price, like arfink said. Probably a better idea.

Nadia · Post by **Nadia** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:33 pm

Bregalad wrote:Then you might as well invest in a powepak, which I doubt will be more expensive than an EPROM programmer + soldering iron + solder + game bit + EPROMs.
Unless you plan to sell quantities of bootlegs, in this case this board is not for you.

I am based in Asia and powepak+flashcard+shipping+customs may touch upto $200USD for me. This is why I started thinking about buying eeprom and programmer.

I am not an electronics expert but lately I have generated interest in doing electronic stuff myself. If I opt for buying a programmer and related things it may help me in the non-NES related stuff as well.

I have never operated an eeprom programmer before. This is why I initiated this topic just to make a list of all things I need to buy/prepare alongside a programmer.

Bregalad, you said you spent a lot on programmer stuff before finally getting a power pak . Would you like to elaborate about the problems you faced?

Nadia · Post by **Nadia** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 8:43 pm

Bregalad wrote:Sorry I was talking about people that "kindly" ask advice here for making repros of commercial games and in fact they just sell them as authentic games. There has been quite a few of them.

That's why when I see how many people come on this board just to make bootlegs of commercial games I'm really suspicious about it - and I always advertise for the powepak. Honestly since I have mine I never bothered to use any of my old devcards ever again. The only reason I might get them out again is if I need to test something on a true mapper that the powerpak could be emulating incorrectly, or test power-up behavior. (and yes I wasted too much money on my programmer right before the powepak was out but that's another story)

Since all the people asking here wants either to play existing games they don't have a cartridge of, or test their software, the powerpak excels at both.

Producing and selling copies of existing games is not my intention.

The reason I joined nesdev was "pure education". At this point in time my immediate goal is to develop a prototype cart(s) which has removable eeprom so that I can test my personal nes software on that.

peppers · Post by **peppers** » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:02 pm

other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?

Aituon · Post by **Aituon** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 8:32 am

peppers wrote:other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?

Make repros of rare games, sell them off as originals. See the picture?

MottZilla · Post by **MottZilla** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 9:05 am

peppers wrote:other than prototype carts and game hacks I seriously doubt anybody could make any money doing that, could they?

It all depends on what they can manage to sell their bootlegs for. Obviously no one is going to try to bootleg Mega Man 2 and make a bunch of money.

Bregalad · Post by **Bregalad** » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:39 am

I am based in Asia and powepak+flashcard+shipping+customs may touch upto $200USD for me. This is why I started thinking about buying eeprom and programmer.

Sorry I couldn't know. In fact porting the powerpak to my country plus import taxes also summed up to $200, and that 2 times (for NES and SNES) but if that's too much I understand. Especially if you have a Famicom or Famiclone that would require an 72 -> 60 pin adapter for the Power Pak to work.

Games that would be very likely to be bootleged and sold are anything which was either not released outside of japan, or that was so in small quantities. Games that were unsuccessful the day of their release but that gained popularity with the emulation scenes are also good candidate. On the NES, Earthbound, Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior games could be good candidates for bootlegging.

I know quite a lot of Seiken Densetsu 3 and Chrono Trigger bootlegs were made. Someone can buy a cart of Illusion of Time for about $5 and replace the ROM with one of those games and sell it for more than $100. Not only this is illegal profit, but it's more the lie behind the sell (that the cart is authentic) and the fact people "kindly ask for advice on making their devart" here when in fact they are just doing fake carts.
I'm not saying Nadia is like this - in fact he's likely NOT like this (especially since he explained why the powepak wasn't a solution) - but I was pointing out that now that the powerpak is out there is no purpose in having devcards any longer. I'm sure more than one people came on this forum for that.