nesdev.org

I would say that depends on how bad it's programmed, but I don't know, I'm not a 6502 programmer. Doesn't matter though, because if I did make a MIDI>NES conversion tool, it would still sound bad anyway since I would suck at 6502 programming.

Doommaster1994 wrote:I would say that depends on how bad it's programmed, but I don't know, I'm not a 6502 programmer. Doesn't matter though, because if I did make a MIDI>NES conversion tool, it would still sound bad anyway since I would suck at 6502 programming.

It doesn't depend on the quality of the conversion tool, but on the input (MIDI) file. If the input file adheres to all the NES limitations, a process like that can work well. But you can't throw a random MIDI file off the internet to a tool like that and expect good results.

Ah, I see.
If I was making such a tool which I do plan to do when I learn 6502 (I'm learning C++ in a class right now), I want to use my own instruments. That sounds like it would be a tricky task, but again, I'm not a programmer on the NES so I wouldn't know. It's just an assumption. I would also have it be as fast as 32nd notes, no triplets or anything. Maybe down the road, but not at first if I made the thing.

Instruments is the worst part about the MIDI way - you just don't have them at edit stage, and only have them in your driver (if at all), and you have to edit them separately as hex code or with some special tool. So, when you make music, you have no idea how it will sound.

MIDI does not know anything about 32nd and triplets, MIDI files store time stamps for all the notes instead. So triplets etc are not a problem, the problem is that timings resolution in MIDI files is much higher than you can have on NES (and it is flexible in the files but fixed in NES).

If you put a "delay next note by n frames within the row" effect in your music engine's bitstream (compare S3M effect SDx), you can get timing resolution almost as good as MIDI at the cost of some extra space.

You can't get timing resolution that even remotely resembles what MIDI is capable if you run your music engine on NMI (50/60 hz). MIDI files can have resolutions like 1/800 second, while on NES with NMI you have 1/50 or 1/60, and even if you run your music engine with a timer IRQ, you realistically can have 1/150 or 1/200, not much more (and sure it is not really suitable for a game).

All this only means that you can't use arbitrary BPM and note placements, you need to use certain BPMs and quantize. Live play would require cleanup.

Shiru wrote:All this only means that you can't use arbitrary BPM and note placements, you need to use certain BPMs and quantize. Live play would require cleanup.

My music engine supports arbitrary BPMs in rows per minute. (It works like a Bresenham counter: add the bpm value to a 16-bit counter and wrap at 3606, starting a new row with each wrap.) But yes, live play would need a bit of quantization to move keypresses within one frame of the start of a row to the start of a row.

Hola Alberto, yo tambien soy español (creo que tu tambien lo eres), soy aficionado a la musica chip tune, aunque no programo para componerla si no que uso un secuenciador, en mi caso es reason, me gustaria saber si te es posible de explicarme cual es la estructura de las canciones de nes, se que hay varias pero segun tengo entendido una bastante usada es la de cuatro compases para la introduccion y luego otros cuatro para el puente y ocho compases mas y a partir de ahi se crea un loop, perdona mi ignorancia pero aun no lo domino, tengo algunas pistas compuestas pero me pierdo en ese tema, estoy haciendo un juego y me gustaria dotarlo de musica emulada de NES.
Me he ilusionado cuando despues de leer los articulos que hay por aqui he visto que has posteado.
A mi tambien me gusta Jonathan Dunn, me encanta la musica de Darkman y tambien Tim y Geoff Follin, en especial la de Terminator 2.
He visto que tu compusiste la de los pitufos, esa no la habia escuchado por que nunca llegue a tener el juego pero la conseguire para escucharla.
Por cierto perdon por el offtopic.



Hello Alberto, I'm also Spanish (I think you are too), I am fond of chip tune music, although composing program if I use a sequencer, in my case is reason, I would like to know if you are able to explain what is the structure of the songs from the NES, is that there are several but I have understood according to a well used is the four measures for the introduction and then another four to eight-bar bridge and from there more and create a loop, forgive my ignorance but not yet mastered, but I have some tracks made ​​me lose on that topic, I'm making a game and I would like to give it emulated NES music.
Excited when I read the articles after they've seen around here that have posted.
I also like Jonathan Dunn, I love the music of the Darkman and Tim and Geoff Follin also, especially that of Terminator 2.
By the way sorry for the offtopic.

When I started making music I didn't know that a triplet, or a quarter note, or chord was called like that, I only knew that certain notes sounded good put together. I didn't even know about tempos or MIDI, I always named the time of the notes using frames-per-second. Of course now it's different but then it worked fine.

There are not many exact tempos to use if you update the sound driver only 16.6 or 20 times per second (NTSC, PAL), there's too much time between updates. I had that problem with the GBA. It was all MIDI, and the tunes sounded awful if the tempo was not exactly adjusted to coincide with frame times. Well, at least to me it sounded horrible! Keep that in mind if you compose for old consoles using MIDI.

To Shriru, Hola! sí que soy Español, de Barcelona para ser exactos.
Regarding your question, I never thought about how many measures had each part (what was a measure?), I just did what sounded right to my ears and I think you should do the same. You don't have to follow any rules, just do what you think sounds nice. Besides, breaking the rules is fun (if it works, that is), try doing something different.

You can also check a reference tune and do the same. You learn mimicking what others do, and then it gets out in your own way. Is there any other way to learn?

Just do it whatever the way, if it works it's OK.

Cheers

AlbertoG wrote:You can also check a reference tune and do the same. You learn mimicking what others do, and then it gets out in your own way.

That or you get sued if you screw up and copy too much.

ok, gracias Alberto, a mi me gusta experimentar solo que a veces no se como continuar una melodia o meterle una variacion/modulacion y por eso pense que quiza los que componiais para nes teniais alguna especie de guia o recursos o estructura de canciones o lo que sea para componer esas melodias tan pegadizas, bueno seguire estudiando, un saludo!

ok, thanks Alberto, I like to experience that sometimes just do not know how to continue putting a melody or variation / modulation and so I thought maybe that NES componiais you had some sort of guidance or resources or the structure of songs or that is to compose such melodies as catchy, well continue to explore, a greeting!

Well, I think it's normal to start with a melody and reach a point where you don't know how to follow it. Happens to me all the time. Just need to persevere, or try another idea if you're stuck and out of time. Fortunately game BGMs tend to be short

I usually composed lots of ideas before selecting the ones which would go in the game. Sometimes you are not totally happy about the melody, or you have a good melody but doesn't suit the game at all. No problem, can be used later in another game. Some of my latests GB compositions were based on ideas I wrote in my ZX spectrum a decade before.

To me, the key to compose a catchy tune to focus on the melody and to forget about everything else. Once you have a good melody then you can start putting details all over it.

Hope it helps a bit!

Cheers

perseverancia! ya se me han ocurrido algunas soluciones a algunos problemas
si, eso que dices es lo que yo tambien hago, tengo varias improvisaciones que se me ocurren con el tiempo y voy grabandolas para mas tarde o cuando necesite de ellas editarlas y terminarlas.

perseverance! already happened to me some solutions to some problems:)
if what you say is what I also do, I have several improvisations that occur to me over time and I save it for later when you need them or edit them and finish them.

Una pregunta Alberto que no es sobre musica pero igual tambien la sabes, siempre he tenido curiosidad sobre todo esto, como se diseñaban los sprites fondos y demas graficos para los juegos de NES, Spectrum etc.. los dibujabais en papel y luego los pasabais a pixels o directamente en pixels?, los programas que usabais supongo que ya estan obsoletos pero cuales eran?
La persona que hacia todo esto requeria de estudios o simplemente era alguien que sabia dibujar bien?
Muchas veces he buscado material sobre todo esto en youtube pero nunca he encontrado nada a modo de making of desde el propio corazon de una de estas oficinas, me gustaria mucho ver como trabajaban pero como ya digo no hay practicamente nada al respecto.
Una cosa mas si no te es mucha molestia, podrias escribir en castellano tambien? es que uso el traductor de google y a veces no termino de entender bien lo que querias decir, si no te es mucha molestia


Alberto A question that is not about music but also know it as I've always been curious about all this, as funds were designed sprites and other graphics for NES games, Spectrum etc. .. drawings on paper and then pasabais directly to pixels or pixels?, programs usabais I guess they are obsolete, but what were they?
The person required to study this or it was just someone who could draw well?
Many times I have searched all this material on youtube but I have never found anything like a making of from the very heart of one of these offices, I would love to see how they worked but as I say there is practically nothing.
One more thing if you do not too much trouble, you could also write in Castilian? is to use the google translator and sometimes do not quite understand what he meant, if you do not too much trouble:)

Shao, those questions would be far off the topic and I don't want to hijack the thread.

Drop me a line to albertojgp @ gmail . com and I'll answer your questions in plain spanish