nesdev.org

shao wrote:es que uso el traductor de google y a veces no termino de entender bien lo que querias decir

The same thing happens to us when we read the english parts of your posts, buddy. You should probably review the output, since some words are even left untranslated (pasabais, usabais).

I'm sorry, from now on will check to adapt the word if not translated

Wow, I didn't get notified there were so many comments!
Alberto, that's some really interesting stuff you said. And the way you compose...I know you were originally a graphics person and just had the talent of being able to compose music, like Mark Cooksey.
I took band for a few years but that didn't really teach me how to compose. The way I compose, I get an idea in my head, and if I think it sounds good, I will write it down, but if I think it sounds bad, then I forget about it, and most of the time, while I'm composing, I just compose as I go, something tells me what note to put in and how long it should be. I guess that could be called ad libbing.
Though if I ever wrote music for a game, I would try and compose something that would go as closely with the game as possible. Like if there was a space-adventure game, I'd probably make some techno-ish music. Or if there was a wrestling game, I would do some metal (which is kind of my specialty.) I don't necessarily have any inspirations to my NES music, but if I had to name some, they would be 90's bands mostly, mostly consisting of Alice in Chains, Nirvana, Pearl Jam, and Barenaked Ladies (and for those of you around the world, yes, that's their name.) The keyboardist of BNL, Kevin Hearn, inspired me to play keyboards. I also got what apparently is called perfect/absolute pitch, where I am able to hear a note and know what it is. I don't get how other people don't have it though, like I feel as though they too should also know the note.

If you have absolute pitch, that is a wonderful gift!

One of the things I liked more about making music for games is that it forces you to try and adapt yourself to different music styles and moods. Making "smurfy" music out of the game is not the same

I read what I posted some pages back I must clarify something.
Where I said:

There are not many exact tempos to use if you update the sound driver only 16.6 or 20 times per second (NTSC, PAL), there's too much time between updates.

I really meant that there are not many good tempos if you update the driver every 16.6 or 20 milliseconds only (60hz, 50hz).

But as nobody said anything, I think nobody noticed or cared about it

Why, I noticed it back then, just thought it is not important to correct, as everyone who is into chip music would easily understand what you actually meant.

Most probably, but I'm a damn perfectionist! someone could get it for true. I'm glad you noticed it.

Well, I think it's normal to start with a melody and reach a point where you don't know how to follow it. Happens to me all the time. Just need to persevere, or try another idea if you're stuck and out of time. Fortunately game BGMs tend to be short

I just wanted to say for me it's the exact same thing. I haven't composed music for a while but it always ended up like that. So either I made a bad end to the song, or made it too short

I also got what apparently is called perfect/absolute pitch, where I am able to hear a note and know what it is

I'll probably never know if I have it too or not. Sometimes it works, I can tell which note it is immediately, and sometimes if I hear a song I know well in the wrong tonality I can immediately notice it. (for example when playing a NTSC game on my PAL NES )

However if you just wake me up and ask me to sing a A, I'll probably not be able to get it right.

Another "problem" is that I play an instrument that is called a Bb Cornet, this means when I play a C it in fact plays a Bb, and all brassbands partions are transposed to this. So it'll not be rare I'll have the cornet note in the head instead of the "correct" note. Not that this is a big problem but probably if I played a non-transposing instrument instead I would have this perfect/absolute pitch, that cornet prevent me to have.


About tempo I'm not sure what you're talking about. Low update speed such as 20ms or 16.7ms limits how fast the song can be, but it doesn't quantize tempos.
In my engine I use an incremental counter, and a tick will happen whenever an overflow happens.
A note does't always use the same # of frames but I don't think it does matter, does it ?

Frame rate do quantize tempos, actually. The counter overflow does not produce proper stable tempo, it produce a swinging tempo that is flows like 2-2-2-3-2-2-2-3 frames per row, and it could be noticeable, with staccato parts for example, or with arpeggio parts (arpeggio restarts on a new note).

Speaking of musical ear, I don't have perfect pitch, not even good relative pitch - these are handy, but are not necessary to make or play music, especially chip tune.

Frame rate do quantize tempos, actually. The counter overflow does not produce proper stable tempo, it produce a swinging tempo that is flows like 2-2-2-3-2-2-2-3 frames per row, and it could be noticeable, with staccato parts for example, or with arpeggio parts (arpeggio restarts on a new note).

Exactly.

I'm not too sure what you're talking about.
Under normal circonstances, I use 24 "ticks" for a whole note, 12 "ticks" for a half note etc...
I think the shortest note allowed is 4 ticks. Also I make sure all notes goes in a "release phase" where the volume gets gradually lower 2 ticks before they end, so that notes are well separated.

Ticks happen on overlow of a counter so they typically apper in a sequence like 2,2,3,2,2,3,2,2,3 frames or something in the like.
This will make notes of equal lenght for example will do sometihng like 12, 13, 12, 13, 13, 12 frames, but I don't think human ear can perceive that.

For very short notes, if it ends up like 4,5,4,5 frames it *might* be noticeable but I'm not even that sure about it.

Well what do you suggest are the "correct" tempos that "work fine" on both NTSC and PAL ?

Sure, it is barely noticeable on long notes, although arpeggio restart still could be noticeable (jumps to restart from different notes). With short notes like 2-3 frames long it is noticeable. In fact, you can use it to your advantage with the triangle channel - it does not have volume control, but you still can add some pulsation in it by varying note lengths (like 3-2-2-2-3-2-2-2, looks familiar, isn't?). You can even add a very crude 'echo' this way. The counter based tempo could actually add unneeded and uncontrolled pulsation.

To get quality sounding music on a sound chip you actually have to use really fast speeds, like 2-3 frames per row, and that's where the problem with tempo counter starts to be noticeable.

I don't even think about tempos related to chip music, I only measure speed in frames - like 4,5,6,7,8 frames per row. You can calculate correct tempos from these numbers. If I need to make music a bit faster or slower, I use 'swing', altering the speeds manually - basically it is the same that the tempo counter would do, but with more control.

To me is clearly noticeable and not necessarily on fast tempos. Specially on the drums and hats which are very periodic by nature.

By "row" you mean a row in a tracker ? I never used trackers much and I don't like this format to compose music... I just use my own format which is more like MML.
But I guess a row in a tracker is like a tick in my engine exept you use less rows, usually 8 (??) for a whole note, when I use 24 ticks in my engine making it more precise.

Yes, I'm reffering to rows in a tracker. Usually it is 2-8 frames per row. 6 is default by tradition, it is 125 BPM for PAL. Usually it is 16-32 rows per measure, depending from the minimal note length you want to have.

Alberto, I got to ask,
How did you program the triangle drums? How hard was that?