What's Your Fast-Cycle Development Setup?

qbradq · Post by **qbradq** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 12:23 pm

Hello! I'm finally sitting down to write that NES space shooter I've always wanted to make but am having some issues figuring out a cheap and effective way to test on real hardware. I am trying to keep my costs low so my CFO (read: Wife) doesn't fire (read: kill, mutilate and destroy) me.

I have searched the forums and read several threads where folks were developing an all-in-one programmable dev cart, but most of the threads ended with, "I've almost got it working, I'll post again when it's done".

So my question this: Is there some magical MMC1 cart with CHR-RAM and W-RAM that connects to my PC via USB and lets me dump my .nes file onto it? Or is a socketed MMC1 board from RetroZone and a cheap flash burner by best option?

Thanks!

MottZilla · Post by **MottZilla** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 1:57 pm

You would have to see just how much it would cost versus the PowerPAK. Depending on the EPROM programmer you get you may not have much of any advantage price wise. Though you do have an accuracy advantage since the PowerPAK alters the power up state of the game in theory so you would see how your program performs when being an actual cart. Sadly there is no simple MMC1 or UxROM type USB programmable cart.

If you have the right setup you might be able to get by with a cheap EPROM programmer and some Flash chips. But be very careful. I would pretty much recommend against any programmer that uses the 25 pin parallel port.

3gengames · Post by **3gengames** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 3:57 pm

I have emus for development, then EPROM carts we made for testing.

Post by **Memblers** » Tue Mar 01, 2011 4:08 pm

If a fast cycle time is what you want, then something like this is ideal: http://www.hamotorsports.com/ostrich.html

It will load faster than a flashcart, don't have to swap memory chips, it's surely faster than loading over the controller port. You might have to hit the reset button on the NES (unless it can be wired to the CPU reset line, probably can), but that's about all you'd have to do. Furthermore, you can use it with any cart whatsoever, anything that uses a ROM.

I bought a 512kB EPROM emulator for about $200 a while back, it helped me out a lot.

qbradq · Post by **qbradq** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:46 am

So I guess it's not a fast cycle time I am really after. I just want to find the most cost-effective way of testing on real hardware.

I could swing the Power Pak. Does anyone have experience with how the Power Pak's MMC1 compares to the MMC1 Dev Board that RetroZone offers? I would assume they are PLCs running identical mapper code, but you never know

Also I am using a YoBo knock-off right now to play NES games. Are these OK to develop for or will they also run bad code?

ibeenew2 · Post by **ibeenew2** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 8:49 am

Depending on the mapper the usb copynes + powerpak lite is really fast. Supports lotsa mappers, ~$120

Post by **tepples** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:12 am

The PowerPak doesn't work on a lot of famiclones, many of which are missing signals that some games don't use but the PowerPak does. How much would an authentic NES cost where you live?

qbradq · Post by **qbradq** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 10:18 am

$90 USD for a top-loader, $45 USD for a deck. Deck loaders drive me insane though

Post by **tepples** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:17 pm

With a front-loader, the PowerPak's CF eject level is accessible while the Game Pak slot is in the up position. So you can still swap the CF card without removing the PowerPak from the Control Deck.

MottZilla · Post by **MottZilla** » Wed Mar 02, 2011 2:51 pm

Aren't duty cycles messed up on almost all NoaC systems like the Yobo? So you can't trust it for sound. But for most things a NoaC should be better than atleast some emulators for testing. Unless you are using a mapper that just plain doesn't work as it was stated already that some don't like MMC5. An authentic system is highly recommended for testing software. Emulators are reasonably accurate and have nice debuggers so the majority of your quick cycle time testing can be done there. So the PowerPAK or EPROM Programmer/Emulator or anything else to test on real hardware doesn't need to be super fast. Provided you initialize your program correctly there shouldn't be any power up issues that are hidden by using the PowerPAK to worry about. If using MMC1 you shouldn't have to worry about PP vs MMC1 Repro Pak vs real MMC1 board. But if using MMC3, then you might find some differences in reguards to IRQ behavior I believe.

qbradq · Post by **qbradq** » Thu Mar 03, 2011 6:40 am

Thank you all for your input! The discussion has been very valuable to me. I've been given permission by the Wife to purchase a top-loader and a PowerPak soon, provided I get new glasses first

Thank again! Look for my alpha demo on the homebrew board soon!