CIClone chip from RetroUSB

BBking · Post by **BBking** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:15 pm

With numerous and lengthy times between emails with RetroUSB, I still have no idea what the hell this chip does: http://www.retrousb.com/product_info.ph ... 96b442d325

Can someone please explain? They seem to be very secretive and woulddn't tell me much. What's the deal with:
8 pin DIP multi region switching CIC for NTSC, PAL A, PAL B, and Asian systems.

It sounds like it's a region detection chip and will allow the console to play an out of region game.

And there's this:
Will not fit in Nintendo brand boards without rewiring. Can be locked into NTSC only mode.

I got told in the email that it will only work inside a cartridge. What's it mean?

Is this chip more to do with the lockout chip in the cartridge rather than the region of the console/game?

Please explain!

Kasumi · Post by **Kasumi** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:27 pm

Every licensed NES cartridge has a chip in it that "talks to" a chip in the console. If the chip in the console doesn't detect the chip in the cartridge, the NES will repeatedly reset to keep you from playing that cartridge. The ciclone is a clone of this chip found in licensed NES cartridges. You absolutely need it, unless you or whoever you're giving the cart you're making to has their lockout chip disabled.

Or unless you're destroying a cart to put your homebrew on. In which case, the official chip is already on the board.

Edit: To answer more of your questions: If I recall correctly, each region has a different lockout chip. The CIClone knows how to properly communicate with all of them, so you can use it whether you have a Famicom, NTSC NES, PAL NES or whatever. Locking it to NTSC will make your repro only playable on NTSC systems, but there's little reason to do this. The chip will figure out which region it's talking to after a few resets, and then you never have to mess with it again.

It not fitting into Nintendo Brand Boards probably means you can't use it on a dismantled official cart without rewiring it.

BBking · Post by **BBking** » Sun Jul 03, 2011 8:43 pm

Right. Okay, thanks.

So it's only to play HB games or to get the retropak working on the console? In which disconnecting pin 4 on the lockout chip on the console will still do nothing?

As far as I know, pin 4 on the lockout chip is the reset.

If this chip was put into a legitimate game cartridge, but was out of region (NTSC game to a PAL console) this would do nothing, or that same thing if the lockout chip had pin 4 grounded or disconnected?

Right...

So it's essentially to sell the retropak world wide without having to open the console?

I haven't made any games. I just have out of region games.

And my pin 4 is desoldered.

Post by **tepples** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 5:20 am

Kasumi wrote:Locking it to NTSC will make your repro only playable on NTSC systems, but there's little reason to do this.

The one I can think of is that a game's raster effects aren't timed for /3.2 CPUs, or it uses a Sunsoft bass line that would sound way out of tune on a /3.2 CPU.

@BBking: You have the right idea.

Dwedit · Post by **Dwedit** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:40 am

The Ciclone often forgets which region it was last using, especially after a loose connection in the cartridge slot that would cause power to blink anyway.

BBking · Post by **BBking** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:54 pm

Aww... That sucks. I thought it would allow you to play out of region games.

I bought 3 too.

Bugger. Well, I'd rather disconnect pin 4.

It's hard to "region free" the console, isn't it? Changing video mode and 50/60hz?

Jeroen · Post by **Jeroen** » Mon Jul 04, 2011 9:56 pm

Changing 50/60 hz would require you to wire in another ppu and somehow switch one out while the other's running...so no that wouldnt really work.

ibeenew2 · Post by **ibeenew2** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:30 am

So you bought them without knowing what they are, then think they are "secretive" when you don't understand the replies? That must be a customer service nightmare

3gengames · Post by **3gengames** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 8:36 am

You can keep pin 4 connected and just put both chips on a board and wire them to talk to each other. That way any region can will play.

BBking · Post by **BBking** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 3:32 pm

ibeenew2 wrote:So you bought them without knowing what they are, then think they are "secretive" when you don't understand the replies? That must be a customer service nightmare

The website states:
8 pin DIP multi region switching CIC for NTSC, PAL A, PAL B, and Asian systems

It does not mention anything about the lockout chip. What else can "multi region switching" mean?

I mentioned the lockout chip in the emails and they said:
> The ciclone chip is only designed to work inside a game cartridge not
> inside a Console.
>
> It has no effect on the region of the game, it only unlocks the console.
>
> The game region and the video mode are not related to the lockout chip.

They could have at least said that the CIClone and the lockout chip are related!! And that disconnecting or grounding pin 4 had the same efffect as the CIClone, seeing as I mentioned it. I knew the lockout chip was not related to the region. I said that in the email.

They were only $4 so I'm not that fussed but man... They could have explained it better.

Post by **tepples** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 5:45 pm

CIC is used in Nintendo patent documents to mean "checking integrated circuit", that is, the lockout chip.

3gengames · Post by **3gengames** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 6:54 pm

You can put it in your console, it's ment for games, but if you disconnect the lockout from talking to the connector and make it only talk the the one in your console, explain how it wouldn't work. It'd be fine.

BBking · Post by **BBking** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:02 pm

tepples wrote:CIC is used in Nintendo patent documents to mean "checking integrated circuit", that is, the lockout chip.

Oh. Well there you go. Thanks for that!

3gengames wrote:You can put it in your console, it's ment for games, but if you disconnect the lockout from talking to the connector and make it only talk the the one in your console, explain how it wouldn't work. It'd be fine.

Well, I've just learnt that the chip will have the same effect as disconnecting pin 4, which I have already done.

I might make a game one day...? And I can make 3 cartridges.

3gengames · Post by **3gengames** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:03 pm

BBking wrote: I might make a game one day...? And I can make 3 cartridges.

Need any help, mail me or post. Alays good to have one more homebrewer!

Dwedit · Post by **Dwedit** » Tue Jul 05, 2011 7:44 pm

Let's hypothetically suppose that you did replace the lockout chip in a NES with a ciclone. Now what would happen...

First, would it even connect correctly? Are the pins the same, or does it need rewiring?

Second, would it be able to talk to the game, and respond to resets?

Even if it managed to work in a system exactly the way it worked in a cartridge, the only real benefit to having a multiregion lockout chip is that you get a flashing screen warning that your cartridge isn't connected properly.