nesdev.org

for the tl;dr crowd, my question is what ERPOM burner should I buy that would best be suited to making NES and Famicom reproductions?

For the rest:

This fall I will be going back to school to learn videogame programming. I realize that I'll be learning high level programming in languages such as C++, Java, VisualBasic, etc and probably not 6502 assembly, but I do nevertheless have the interest in learning assembly and more to the point of this thread, producing my own reproduction carts.

In preparation do getting into that I have purchased several dozen EPROMs, mostly UV Erasable ones but also a handful of flash ones as well.

Researching on my own lead me to realize 8-bit EPROMs are measured in Megabits, which are divisible by 8, so I came up with this chart. Hopefully I am not mistaken.

27C128 = 16KB
27C256 = 32KB 
27C512 = 64KB
27C010 = 128KB
27C020 = 256KB
27C040 = 512KB

So what I would like to know is if someone might be able to recommend a modern, USB EPROM burner well suited for the task of making NES reproductions.

I primarily use a imac, but do have an older circa 2004 PC with XP if needbe.

I have pre-existing knowledge of NES boards and soldering skills to remove the mask roms in place.

I know that eventually with the later, more complex games, Nintendo began to use custom chips that don't match up with off the shelf EPROMs, and hence need wired cross connections. I don't plan to tackle anything like that just yet - probably stick to NROMs, UNROMs and other simple boards. I have 28 27C512 which I hope I can make SMB1 hack repros with.

So if you stuck with me and read all this, I gratefully appreciate advice of which EPROM burner to go with, possibly where to buy it and how much I should expect to pay. Thanks!

You'll most likely not see any assembly or Visual Basic in any videogame programming course.

SatoshiMatrix wrote:In preparation do getting into that I have purchased several dozen EPROMs, mostly UV Erasable ones but also a handful of flash ones as well.

For constant rewriting, Flash and EEPROMs are much better, since they can be easily erased in seconds by the programmer, while EPROMs require several minutes under UV light. EPROMs are good enough for permanent carts though.

27C128 = 16KB
27C256 = 32KB 
27C512 = 64KB
27C010 = 128KB
27C020 = 256KB
27C040 = 512KB

This is correct.

I primarily use a imac, but do have an older circa 2004 PC with XP if needbe.

I really don't know how easy it is to find software for OSs other than Windows...

probably stick to NROMs, UNROMs and other simple boards.

UNROM requires rewiring if you plan to use more than 32KB (*anything* over 32KB requires rewiring, no matter the mapper).

I have 28 27C512 which I hope I can make SMB1 hack repros with.

The 27C512 is a 64KB chip, while SMB1 has 32KB (PRG) and 8KB (CHR). You will need some rewiring to make the chip appear smaller to the NES (basically you have to ground the unused address lines).

I gratefully appreciate advice of which EPROM burner to go with, possibly where to buy it and how much I should expect to pay.

I have had good luck with my Wellon, it's very reliable, works every time (unlike my old Willem). The memory chips used in 8-bit consoles and computers are very common, so even the most basic programmer should support most of them. Stores that sell EPROM programmers often provide a list of supported chips, so be sure to check if the ones you have are in the list. I'm fairly sure you can get a good programmer for under US$100.

I've asked elsewhere, and was given four EPROM burner choices. Maybe someone here has experience and can help me avoid buying a crap one?


TOP2009 USB universal programmer
http://cgi.ebay.com/New-TOP2009-USB-uni ... 9286112644

TOP2004 EPROM Universal Programmer
http://cgi.ebay.com/120642521845?clk_rv ... 9273788564

PRG-002 Dual Power Willem Universal EPROM Programmer
http://www.mcumall.com/comersus/store/c ... oduct=3081

Genius G540
http://cgi.ebay.com/USB-Universal-Progr ... 5ad249eb86

Which of those should I look at getting, or do you guys have some other burner you recommend?

No willems. Nothing but nightmares from what I've heard. And the one person in a blue moon that says they worked fine, but don't get a willem.

And that top 2009 does 2716, some don't do those for some reason, so seems good to me. Also, that G540 looks interesting. I like the pin detection feature. Although with no list of what it supports or what voltage types, I'd pass on that one. I'd go with top2009 from that list, although it says it only goes to 6.5V devices in the auction, and it says it programs the 12.5V 27C(0)XX, so maybe just a typo or something weird.

I don't think the Willem's would be so popular if they didn't work. They're manufactured by a lot of different people, so quality control could vary though. It's worth noting that it's not a USB programmer, it's parallel port and only uses USB for power. If you program an EPROM you have to use a 9V or 12V DC adapter, USB power is only good for programming Flash and stuff. It's more of a hassle to use, but is cheaper for it. For burning EPROMs on mine I have to change jumpers on it that aren't even shown in the software.

Here is the list of G540 supported stuff:
http://www.pic16.com/soft/G540_DeviceList.txt
That's the first I'd heard of that one. Sounds OK.

I'm not sure what advantage the TOP2009 has over the TOP2004. There really aren't new chips being made in DIP package anymore (just variations if anything), so I don't think the supported device list is going to grow for any of these. Willem might have the advantage of more programming adapters for surface-mount packages. But that won't matter at all for what you're wanting to do with it.

I'd say to go with the TOP2004, or whichever is cheapest (Willem might be "too cheap").

BTW for 2.5V-6.5V device support it's talking about the VCC voltage. 12.5V would be the VPP (programming) voltage. A lot of 5V EPROMs, you have to run VCC at higher voltage when programming them. My Willem does 5V and 5.6V, and I use both those settings depending on what I program with it.

Thanks for the list, that G540 doesn't seem that bad actually.

I'd try to download the software and see which ones has the preffered interface.

And I think Willems are popular because they are cheap, and they are programmers. It's the easiest way to do stuff with programming ROM's, but it isn't a quality thing.

And maybe a DIY project with a PIC would make a good programmer, my ada has always said he wants to make his own where you send it a chip number and a binary and it'll program it, that'd be a fine project.

And okay, that makes sense now about thw 2.5-6.5 devices. Interesting.

I bought a Willem PCB 5.0E programmer off EBay and had nothing but trouble. I ended up making my own with an Arduino and a few shift registers. I spent less time soldering it together and writing the firmware and Windows client software than I did jacking around with the Willem.

I bought the genius G540 programmer after reading this thread and it works fine programming atmel eeproms under xp. The progress bar freezes when programming them under windows 7 but they do get programmed ok.

I use the genius to program at28c256 eeproms that fit in a modified mario bros cart, that i use to create homebrew on works great

I have a MiniPro and it works quite well and fast for 27CXXX Eproms, my only gripe is it doesn't support 29f032b for snes games. I found a cheaper programmer that does but I hear it isn't as good as the minipro so I will prolly hold onto that for NES and Genny games.

USB TOP853 is my favorite for NES only, anything higher you need a better programmer. I haven't had any bad burns yet.

I have a GQ-4X. It's a little more expensive, but it's USB and compatible with Windows 7.

I had a little trouble installing the drivers, but other than that I feel it was a good purchase.

i bought the USB Mini pro. Model tl866cs
this thing will not program my NES rom chips, please help me