nesdev.org

The best part of Rockman 5 was the Anime tie in. It was released much later in US as "Megaman - Upon a Star". Due to its unexpected educational content that comes right out of nowhere, and a 'nice surprise' involving Dr. Wily, it's firmly planted in "So Bad It's Good" territory.

Oh yeah! I totally forgot about the Rockman OVAs! I wonder if I should add that info in though...the eighth entry is already pretty lengthy as it is.

#6. This is getting exciting now!

http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/2012 ... es-list-6/

here's #5. I really, really love this game.
http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/2012 ... es-list-5/

Entry #4

http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/2012 ... es-list-4/

No Genghis Khan, so far... I will be disappointed if it doesn't make the list.

Sorry it's a little late. Here's #3.

http://satoshimatrix.wordpress.com/2012 ... es-list-3/

Only 2 games left! I see a couple high-profile games still on the board, but in the end I think I know what the top 2 will be (one super-obvious, one a semi-darkhorse.) Can't wait to see if I'm right!

Crystalis is 43 but Zelda is 4 and Final Fantasy is 7. Lol, lost ALL credibility there.

I thought Final Fantasy 1 was horribly overrated. Having played II and Mystic Quest before playing 1, I couldn't stand FF1. (Played Dragon Warrior 1-3 before getting the SNES)

3gengames wrote:Crystalis is 43 but Zelda is 4 and Final Fantasy is 7. Lol, lost ALL credibility there.

That's an unfair statement. I haven't simply elected titles at random. In each article, I explain why each are worth playing. Even so, if you require more, allow me to explain.

God Slayer/Crystalis has real potential to be better than Zelda - It operates the simple fun gameplay forumla with an action RPG complete with level system. it's visually superior, and the audio is quite good.

On the other hand, it's deeply flawed in its execution. There is far too much level grinding required, and as far as I'm concerned, that's a big no-no in an ACTION game. If Crystalis was turn based, I could accept it, but not as it is. It's still placed #43 out of over 2000, so you can't say it didn't rank highly. All 42 games ahead of it are just ones I'd rather play over it.

Final Fantasy 1 takes a certain kind of retro gamer to appreciate. It's slow, it's methodical, and its engaging. As with Kirby's Adventure, this is one of those NES games I perfect to play as slowly as possible. You see all kinds of speedruns for retro games, so I guess you could call these two titles anti-speed runners.

I didn't play Final Fantasy 1 until after 4 was released for the SNES as Final Fantasy II, but even from an early age I appreciated Final Fantasy for allowing me to create MY party rather than following a predetermined character and plot.

Even as a young kid, one of the things I understood about videogames was that you could shape your own plot in a way impossible for tv shows or movies. In a sense, in Final Fantasy 1 you were your own scriptwriter. The four heroes you assemble is YOUR party, with the names YOU thought of for them.

I remember writing down tons of four letter names. The restriction obviously lead to childish names like BUTT and BOOB, but also LIT, JACK, SUE, MARY, KYLE, and many others.

So yes, Final Fantasy 1 is firmly in my top 10 NES games. It would also rank highly in my overall top 100, which I'm considering writing.

and then there's Zelda.

Zelda is a masterpiece, something I return to at least on a yearly basis. Of course it'll place in the top 10 and even top 5, it was just a matter of where. I think given what I've got ahead of it its placement is perfectly justified.

I actually don't like the first Zelda at all, but I am not going to complain about the order of your list. I can tell how much thought you've put into it.

But for the sake of discussion: I do understand how amazing Zelda was back then, but I have no attachment to what it was. I never played it then. I played (and beat) it for the first time late last year and the whole game stinks of "bad retro" to me now. "Bad Retro" is any game mechanic you remember less than fondly. Getting sent back to the very beginning after losing all your lives in a platform hell game. No wallkicks in Tetris. Starting with stupidly low health. (Metroid...)

I actually really enjoyed Zelda for the first 3 or so dungeons. Then it just became arduous. I started with the attitude of, "Okay. I want to see how far I can get without a guide." And that became, "Okay, I'll only use the map included with the original game." And that became, "Okay, I'll use a guide to find the dungeons, but not beat them."

At some point around when I had to play the whistle to uncover the entrance to the dungeon, I realized there was be no more fun to be had in the game. The monster blocking the dungeon? I actually THOUGHT of that, but talked myself out of thinking that was the solution. "There is no WAY they're gonna make me leave the dungeon to buy monster bait, after I walked forever just trying to FIND the dungeon."

But my brother who was watching said it was the only thing I hadn't tried. I didn't get the "AHA!" response that is what makes Zelda games fun to me. I was just PISSED I had to go and do that.

Eventually, I was playing the game on autopilot with the guide. I just wanted to get it over with to say I beat it, I had no attachment to what I was doing anymore.

I understand how people like this game. Once you know about all that stuff, you can beat the game and have fun doing it. You never have to think about it again. But for a new person, especially who didn't grow up playing games like this, it's just awful. (Badge of Honor Note: I did play NES games as a kid, but we didn't have a game console in the house until genesis.)

I was actually having a discussion with someone a long time ago about an RPG I like. They claimed it was SO hard, and I didn't think it was. But now that I think about my experience with Zelda, they totally had a point. The strategies that make the game easy can't really be found without playing the game a thousand times, or reading about them someplace.

I also started a game of Zelda 2 right after (I hadn't beat that one yet either), but quit when I realized I was just going to have zero fun wandering, or zero fun playing the game on autopilot with a guide.

Interestingly, Link's Awakening probably makes my top ten favorite games spanning all consoles despite having similar problems.

What immediately comes to mind is the Racoon and magic powder, but the hint is not awful just not hand holding. But that is RIGHT IN THE BEGINNING so that's even worse for new players who don't have any commitment to the game yet.

Then there is the trade sequence which has its moments... But since I know about how to beat it, the game is incredibly fun. And just walking around the overworld jumping around is more than walking in one direction at a time in Zelda... It's amazing how small things shape the experience so much. Also, it has dungeons that actually have cool puzzles, rather than the solution always being "push a block", or "kill all the enemies in the room."

On the other hand, it's deeply flawed in its execution

Definitely. Crystalis' controls are horrible, and I mean HORRIBLE. The hit boxes are buggy, the hero doesn't stop to walk when you press the attack button.
You see this kind of stuff that makes you cry and throw the controller at the TV after a few minutes of gameplay. Personally I'd never put Crystalis in any top list, but that's not my list anyways.

And I won't do any comment about metroid being so high.... it's just another of those games that just make me throw the controller at the TV after a few minutes (and never want to play the game again). Bad controls in an action game ruins everything, no matter how the other aspects of the game are good.

FF1 is a good game but it's true I played it mainly because I was fan of it's sequels (not of the game itself). It's way too level-grindy but there is hacks that fix this problem.

Thanks for your detailed reply Kasumi. I can understand how frustrating and a chore Zelda 1 can seem now looking at it when you compare it to its sequels and much more modern games.

as I said in my review, Zelda was made for a time before the internet. Every single time you went "Oh I'll just look this detail up and move on..." you're chipping away at the intended experience.

Metroid. Zelda. Legacy of the Wizard. Final Fantasy. The Galgo 13 games. So many NES games I played as a kid were all done without ANY assistance, not even Nintendo Power.

With only my own wits, I have many memories of drawing my own maps with pencil and paper. This is something I don't think modern gamers would ever consider doing in a million years.



Yet it is in the creation of your own maps that I think a true enjoyment and appreciation for these games flourishes.



Seriously, next time you play Zelda 1, try not to look up ANYTHING on the internet. If you need help, draw your own map and make your own notes! The feeling of satisfaction of clearing a dungeon on your own thanks a map you drew yourself is so much better than just typing gamefaqs or whatever.

And I won't do any comment about metroid being so high.... it's just another of those games that just make me throw the controller at the TV after a few minutes (and never want to play the game again). Bad controls in an action game ruins everything, no matter how the other aspects of the game are good.

FF1 is a good game but it's true I played it mainly because I was fan of it's sequels (not of the game itself). It's way too level-grindy but there is hacks that fix this problem.

Yeah, I don't like Metroid either. I like the GBA remake, though.

As for Final Fantasy, I've never even tried it. I don't like (most) RPGs, because I feel the entire game model is built around wasting my time. I can't walk through the dungeon and fight the boss. I have to WASTE time making numbers go up before I do. Boss Fights aren't really skill based. If you get your butt kicked, you don't have to learn a new strategy if you don't want to. You just waste more of your time making numbers go up. I feel the same way about games like Harvest Moon. It feels like I am WORKING, but I am not getting paid.

When I play Mario, I feel like I'm making progress. I never see the same area twice. I have actual FUN playing a level.

When I play most Metroid games, I feel like I'm making progress. I get powerups, but I can get them in a not obvious order sometimes and because it's not turn based it's possible to thrash bosses with low health and beat the game quickly just playing smart and avoiding attacks.

In RPGs, you don't have control over your character. I might as well have fun rolling dice. I have never felt like, "You know, these battle menus make the game better."

A lot of my favorite RPGs could actually do without their battle system entirely, because they have cool puzzles in the dungeons. RPG battles feel like a waste of my time, all the time.

Every single time you went "Oh I'll just look this detail up and move on..." you're chipping away at the intended experience.

Then the intended experience is even WORSE. I only looked at guides because the game was already SO NOT fun that I couldn't stand it. The whistle thing. If I didn't look that up, it would have been more than 8 hours of me looking for the old man the gives the hint, "There are Secrets where Fairies don't Live." Even then, the whistle? Which has a completely different effect everywhere else in the game? Logically, I would just discount the possibility of it doing anything else. I'd try things like bombing where the fairies don't live, and pretty much everything BUT that.

If up did nothing for the entirety of Super Mario Bros. except this one time, in this one place pressing it reveals a pipe that's required to beat the game would you defend that? Even with a vague hint to where the place was, I would try everything else first. I'd try crouching. I'd try throwing fireballs. I'd jump to look for hidden blocks. (BTW I do also have a beef with Super Mario Bros.' looping bowser levels as well) It's like the Xmen genesis game where you have to press the reset button on the console. Who's thinking to do that?

The intended experience should not be for me to feel exhausted and lost. It might be a personality difference, but I get no feeling accomplishment after that. I feel like I wasted 8 hours doing something that could have taken 5 minutes if I knew what I was doing.

Even as a kid I knew things like that were suspect.


(The above image is Sonic 3, Carnival Night Zone's famous Barrel. In case tumblr doesn't like hotlinking)
What if the problem is one like the above? You know what I did when I was young? I just stopped playing. I'm surprised I didn't do that with Zelda.

I HATED Sonic 3 because of that when I was young. I hated it until I knew the trick, and now I don't HATE the game but there's no excuse for that part.