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Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:35 pm
by MottZilla
I don't know, if you use thin enough wire even at low clock speeds you could have problems don't you think?
Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2012 5:48 pm
by l_oliveira
MottZilla wrote:I don't know, if you use thin enough wire even at low clock speeds you could have problems don't you think?
Think about it ... How thick you think the bonding wires are, inside of the chip epoxy body ? They're actually very, very thin. So it does not matter. If you put a thin and long wire, you will have added resistance but it has to be really extreme to cause you problems at 1.7mhz...
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 8:17 pm
by marvelus10
Thick wire, thin wire? Maybe, I don't really know. But one thing I noticed last night was all my test boards use thin wire from IDE cables, and since I got this roll of free network cable I have been using that for my permanent copies.
It got me thinking. I flash my chips pop them in the test cart and test, my results are pretty consistent, they work. Then I make my permanent copy, not always the same consistency any more.
I am starting to think that since I went to using network cable I have been having less success.
Can it really be something as simple as wire thickness, even when dealing with pieces of wire fractions of an inch long to maybe 3 inches long at the most.
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:01 pm
by l_oliveira
I think it has more to do with cold solder joints breaking down from mechanical stress (network cable wires are solid and thick, which means it will transfer more traction to the solder joint than an thin wire from a IDE cable...)
Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:04 pm
by nintendo2600
leonk wrote:
And the rats step out of the of the gutters .. welcome.
When you have reproduced next to 5,000 games in over a decade, then maybe I'll believe a word you say. Reading something in a book and doing it in real life are 2 different things.
I didn't believe it either, until I discovered it in person over the years. Continuity tests on 30ga wire shows perfect connections; removing the eproms and dumping them verified 100%. Replacing the wire caused the games to boot. Common sense would say it can't be so, but my experience showed otherwise.
And how do you know I've not done just as much or more? Again you on your high horse. But congrats on your 5,000 reproductions and spending 10 years making them.
P.S. You don't realize this but long ago you and I met in person and I can say first hand you have the social skills of, and are about as personable, as a dead cat.
Posted: Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:37 am
by Karatorian
It's not the wire. I'll say that much for sure.
Posted: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:32 pm
by Tormenter
leonk wrote:nintendo2600 wrote:
What a crock of shit.
Get off your high horse and pull your head out of your ass. Solid core wire has been used for this purpose in many types of electronics for decades you moron!
And the rats step out of the of the gutters .. welcome.
When you have reproduced next to 5,000 games in over a decade, then maybe I'll believe a word you say. Reading something in a book and doing it in real life are 2 different things.
I didn't believe it either, until I discovered it in person over the years. Continuity tests on 30ga wire shows perfect connections; removing the eproms and dumping them verified 100%. Replacing the wire caused the games to boot. Common sense would say it can't be so, but my experience showed otherwise.
Rats? Your pretty much the only one ive seen over the years that is nothing but a total dick to everyone that you reply to.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 8:21 am
by Tormenter
leonk wrote:I know this is going to come back to bite me .. but oh well.
NO .. it doesn't matter what chip you use for SRAM. I've never ran into an SRAM that didn't work as CHR-RAM for FF3j.
You have a different problem (which I discovered back in 2001 when I started selling reproductions) I have fixed dozens of "other" reproductions (customers sending me reproductions to fix that have pre-maturely failed) and they all have the exact same problem.
THE WIRE YOU USE IS SH*T.
You can't use 26, 28, 30, whatever gauge solid core wire in making reproductions! I know it's cheap, but it's wrong. You have to use multi-strand wire. Years ago, I was using old IDE cable, but I now have a supplier which sells me spools of the wire. It resists cross talk better, and you can run it for longer lengths.
The problem with the CHR-RAM chip is the CHR enable wire. It's the longest wire in any reproduction (pin 56 on connector) and picks up a lot of noise, and feeds it into the CHR-RAM chip.
Sorry for the rant.. tired of fixing bad eBay reproductions.
Ive used 30 gauge wire for years, and never had a problem. So your statement is false.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 11:28 am
by MottZilla
Sounds like fixing these reproductions is more likely when you replace the wire you're reflowing the solder and getting better joints or something like that.
I thought about this the other day and recall seeing old IDE cable being used in reproductions that worked just fine. I think D4S did Star Fox like that. And I believe D4S over alot of other people.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 2:37 pm
by marvelus10
I just made 4 carts this weekend using IDE cable and not my usual network cable and they all worked first try.
So for me at least I'm going back to IDE, the odds seem better for success.
Posted: Mon Mar 05, 2012 3:06 pm
by l_oliveira
As long one solders properly and the wire has insulation should not mater what wire you're using. One should use whatever are comfortable with.
Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:28 pm
by drk421
I've never had any problems with all the carts I've made.
I've mostly used 40 pin IDE cables. Some of them were solid cat5 and crappy radio shack wire wrap which was also solid core.
Most of the lockups/problems I had were from either bad grounds, a pin I thought I could leave floating on an EPROM even though the docs said it was safe.
I would imagine that PCB traces would be closer to solid core than stranded...