sony trinitron + color emphasis bits = scrambled image?

tokumaru · Post by **tokumaru** » Sun Feb 26, 2012 8:31 pm

I bet that even NES clones will be extinct soon, unless someone in the retro gaming community decides to manufacture clones and sell them. I don't know, I don't see this over-abused 8-bit technology being commercially interesting much longer.

Bregalad · Post by **Bregalad** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:11 am

Lenovo PCs have an unbroken legacy back to IBM's original PC; everybody else's PCs are clones. But by now, PC clones far outnumber Lenovo PCs.

Whoooho this means my PC is not a "clone".

That being said it's still VERY MUCH different from the start of the PC standard in the 80s, and much more similar to a modern PC from another copany.

On the other hand NESes can't be upgraded (OK one could put some 8k RAM instead of 2k, then what ?) and Nintendo stopping producing them so the comparison doesn't make any sense.

tokumaru · Post by **tokumaru** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 10:17 am

Bregalad wrote:On the other hand NESes can't be upgraded

Pirates have made various additions to the PPU, allowing for more colors and sprites.

MottZilla · Post by **MottZilla** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:01 am

Which ones are those? I always thought it would be kind of interesting if first you had a solid clone, no cart port wiring or duty cycle errors, and then added some extra capability like being able to enable extended features like 8K WRAM, More Sprites, DMA from CPU to PPU, Built in Scanline IRQ, maybe CPU overclocking if it could avoid APU issues.

Shiru · Post by **Shiru** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:21 am

Chips for upgraded Famiclones and other stuff.

tokumaru · Post by **tokumaru** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 11:43 am

Take a look at the specifications for one of their consoles and you can see how they upgraded the PPU.

MottZilla · Post by **MottZilla** » Mon Feb 27, 2012 9:33 pm

That looks interesting. But without taking a standard cartridge (like the PowerPAK) is limits its use. And it would be nice if it were an actual console and not a "TV game" controller all in one thing.

tokumaru · Post by **tokumaru** » Tue Feb 28, 2012 6:05 am

I think they offer an emulator and test programs with the new features, so you can try them out a bit.

Karatorian · Post by **Karatorian** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 3:44 am

tokumaru wrote:I bet that even NES clones will be extinct soon

I thought that famiclones where still the primary console in large parts of the world (especially in developing countries). Which means that there's probably a large supply of manufacturers who have no reason to exit the business.

Heck, there's still commercial game development taking place in China. (It's a bit disingenuous to call them "pirates" when they write there own stuff. On the other tentacle, the rest of the game's IP does tend to violate copyrights and trademarks.)

unless someone in the retro gaming community decides to manufacture clones and sell them.

I'd say this is a good idea, but probably not cost competitive currently. However, a feature complete open source clone sounds like a worthy endeavor to me.

Edit

Also, the VT(12)68 looks like some pretty cool chips from the specs. They're like a SNES with a 6502. (And they have the coolest postal address ever: "Kung Fu Rd")

MottZilla wrote:That looks interesting. But without taking a standard cartridge (like the PowerPAK) is limits its use. And it would be nice if it were an actual console and not a "TV game" controller all in one thing.

The company sells chips, not devices. So one could build their own console if they wanted to.

3gengames · Post by **3gengames** » Thu Mar 01, 2012 2:29 pm

Karatorian wrote:
tokumaru wrote:I bet that even NES clones will be extinct soon
I thought that famiclones where still the primary console in large parts of the world (especially in developing countries). Which means that there's probably a large supply of manufacturers who have no reason to exit the business.

Whoever they are, if they have business good for them. But none of those famiclones are systems that accept NES or Famicom carts, despite being a clone NES system. That means while there may be more clones in other countries, they're NOT NES or Famicom systems, they're an NES core with everything else different.

Karatorian · Post by **Karatorian** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 7:47 pm

3gengames wrote:But none of those famiclones are systems that accept NES or Famicom carts, despite being a clone NES system. That means while there may be more clones in other countries, they're NOT NES or Famicom systems, they're an NES core with everything else different.

We must not be thinking of the same systems. I thought that parts of the Middle East (and elsewhere, like India) still had lots of pirated Famicom carts being sold. Presumably one can buy systems also.

Of course, this is all hearsay on my part. I haven't seen it myself. Also things may have changed in the years since the accounts I've read where written.

Drag · Post by **Drag** » Fri Mar 02, 2012 11:06 pm

I'll be honest, I get a little depressed when I think about how tilemap-driven VDPs are obsolete.

The only use for them would be for novelty $1 game systems or something.

cpow · Post by **cpow** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 9:49 am

Drag wrote:I'll be honest, I get a little depressed when I think about how tilemap-driven VDPs are obsolete.

The only use for them would be for novelty $1 game systems or something.

I get the same way but it's more driven by my lack-of-interest in the uber-realism 3D worlds that took over. I don't know if it's age-related...I just have a hard time keeping track of things [where did I leave my horse again, dammit...] Much easier to remember the extra life is in the block next to the third pipe. Also, the early days of 3D were plagued with z-order bugs that just drove me nuts...cameras going behind walls, etc. Perhaps it's better now--or perhaps the number of vertices has approached a limit so visually stunning, and gameplay has become so fast-and-furious that these bugs are less noticed. Or perhaps better algorithms came along.

Drag · Post by **Drag** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:37 am

I blame it on the idea that developers don't know what a game is and how it's different from a movie. I also blame it on modern gamers because they'll eat this crap up, which spurs publishers to only want more of it, so developers wind up needing to take the indie approach in order to make something different, where the indie community is also full of novices and generally gets a bad rap for low production values, at least on the 360.

I think gaming (as we knew it, at least) died the moment DLC and achievements became commonplace.

This is also why I tend to stick with Nintendo; they don't do this crap. Sure, they may rerelease 20 year old games over and over, but at least those were good games.

Post by **tepples** » Sat Mar 03, 2012 10:39 am

cpow wrote:I don't know if it's age-related...I just have a hard time keeping track of things [where did I leave my horse again, dammit...] Much easier to remember the extra life is in the block next to the third pipe.

And the classic 2D game design paradigms live on in smartphone games. The only difference is that an orientation sensor and multitouch screen with no tactile feedback have replaced the Control Pad and buttons, and developers and players are assumed to be paying $50 per month for a cellular voice and data plan.

Also, the early days of 3D were plagued with z-order bugs that just drove me nuts...cameras going behind walls, etc. Perhaps it's better now

Z order was broken on the Jaguar, 3DO, Saturn, and the original PlayStation, which would always sort entire polygons. N64 and every sixth- and seventh-generation console, on the other hand, have a depth buffer or "Z buffer" that in effect sorts individual pixels, fixing the most common Z-order bugs. As for cameras getting stuck behind walls, engine programmers have learned to cheat those angles by manipulating the near clipping plane. Super Mario 64 was over a decade ago, and Nintendo is up to Super Mario 67 now.