nesdev.org

Shiru wrote:Obviosuly, because it would be not supported by existing tools, namely emulators.

It's actually a good point if you want to sell cartriges. And with your own mapper you can do more features

If your mapper doesn't work in emulators or on a PowerPak, and you plan to use the fact that it doesn't work as copy protection, then how are you going to test the game to make sure it works before you sell it? I'm under the impression that using an EPROM programmer, a socketed board, and an NES modded to allow insertion of socketed boards is unbearably slow if you use it for every single build, and not every team has someone with the skill set to design a PCB.

I agree that a custom mapper is a good thing if you want copy protection. It slows down developement, but it is possible to mod an emulator for dev purposes, and keep it private.

tepples wrote:If your mapper doesn't work in emulators or on a PowerPak, and you plan to use the fact that it doesn't work as copy protection,

It will slowdown pirating.

then how are you going to test the game to make sure it works before you sell it?

On the real hardware

I'm under the impression that using an EPROM programmer, a socketed board, and an NES modded to allow insertion of socketed boards is unbearably slow if you use it for every single build,

There is another route for those, who conmmon with hardware, but since

and not every team has someone with the skill set to design a PCB.

i feel myself like last samurai. Just wonder, where is real hackers gone...

Shiru wrote:I agree that a custom mapper is a good thing if you want copy protection. It slows down developement, but it is possible to mod an emulator for dev purposes, and keep it private.

Keep it simple - would you like to have VRC7 sound for your games? Would you like extra memory for saves? Would you like more flat memory for PRG code?

What?

Ha ha, it will slow down pirating a teensy tiny bit. This community has reverse engineered every other mapper already; what's going to keep them from figuring out yours? (Anyone who can desolder a chip and use an EPROM programmer can dump the data, even if the mapper is unknown.)

Putting sound in your mapper is only good if you're targeting only Famicom, or modded NESes. Probably most homebrewers here are not aiming for either of those.

Tepples, my socketed cart fits okay inside a front-loader; the real problem was fitting the chips in the cart (have to cut a window in the casing), but the cart fits just fine under the tray bar. No mod to the NES is necessary, but yes it is a really slow process; only really useful for final testing.

rainwarrior wrote:Ha ha, it will slow down pirating a teensy tiny bit. This community has reverse engineered every other mapper already; what's going to keep them from figuring out yours? (Anyone who can desolder a chip and use an EPROM programmer can dump the data, even if the mapper is unknown.)

there is couple tricks, which can surprize you

Putting sound in your mapper is only good if you're targeting only Famicom, or modded NESes. Probably most homebrewers here are not aiming for either of those.

sorry, always forgetting, that NES is castrato.

Tepples, my socketed cart fits okay inside a front-loader; the real problem was fitting the chips in the cart (have to cut a window in the casing), but the cart fits just fine under the tray bar. No mod to the NES is necessary, but yes it is a really slow process; only really useful for final testing.

Good man, but who said to use standart equipment for prototyping?

2 Shiru there is two ways when existence drive your consciousness or opposite.

There are a lot of things you could do to slow down piracy. I don't think there's really anything you can do to stop it entirely. Really, the thing that will determine whether your game is pirated is whether it's any good, and how many people get their hands on it. If it's worthwhile enough, somebody will crack it. Some people will want to crack it just for the challenge.

To me, it doesn't really seem worth the extra development time spent customizing emulators, time spent ensuring reliability, etc. but if it's important to you go ahead and try.

Put the ROM with all data compressed in some weird way and then just screwed up and have a boot loader read it, decode it, and then shove it to a huge PRG-RAM inside the 8000-FFFF space?

Really, we need to do what Pier Solar did and just make a mapper that no emu author will emulate. And make it expensive to do in hardware but easily hardware detectable. And then the best way to trigger it would be code your entire game engine like earthbound where it will only make it ridiculously hard and not fun if they pirate it, but yet not so obvious in the program/RAM map to the point where you have to NOP out one piece of code.

3gengames wrote:Put the ROM with all data compressed in some weird way and then just screwed up and have a boot loader read it, decode it, and then shove it to a huge PRG-RAM inside the 8000-FFFF space?

LOL no.

Really, we need to do what Pier Solar did and just make a mapper that no emu author will emulate. And make it expensive to do in hardware but easily hardware detectable. And then the best way to trigger it would be code your entire game engine like earthbound where it will only make it ridiculously hard and not fun if they pirate it, but yet not so obvious in the program/RAM map to the point where you have to NOP out one piece of code.

Nice story, you should become a writer

All this cries sounds like "Oh, i can not play this new game on my emulator". LOL

Just think about it - what was first game or mapper for that game?

80sFREAK wrote:

3gengames wrote:Put the ROM with all data compressed in some weird way and then just screwed up and have a boot loader read it, decode it, and then shove it to a huge PRG-RAM inside the 8000-FFFF space?

LOL no.

Really, we need to do what Pier Solar did and just make a mapper that no emu author will emulate. And make it expensive to do in hardware but easily hardware detectable. And then the best way to trigger it would be code your entire game engine like earthbound where it will only make it ridiculously hard and not fun if they pirate it, but yet not so obvious in the program/RAM map to the point where you have to NOP out one piece of code.

Nice story, you should become a writer

You act as if your solution (Which you forgot to post I hope) is better than either of those. I'd like to see you create a better solution. I've thrown around many ideas for piracy protection for my own software, you think I'm not 100% serious about what I posted? Why would you even reply to me mocking my ideas and not even giving a reason why they're bad ideas? Prick move, that's all I'm saying.

ETA: The mapper doesn't matter, you want semi-serious copy protection you'll have to do something yourself with your own hardware/software mix. And you should be able to develop on emulator and then add the protection when testing on a real hardware by changing one file from blank to the code needed, then use it as just a JSR function.

3gengames wrote:You act as if your solution (Which you forgot to post I hope) is better than either of those. I'd like to see you create a better solution. I've thrown around many ideas for piracy protection for my own software, you think I'm not 100% serious about what I posted? Why would you even reply to me mocking my ideas and not even giving a reason why they're bad ideas? Prick move, that's all I'm saying.

I didn't said your ideas bad, just there is another way to do to make surprize

be able to develop on emulator

emulator

This. You always talking about emulator. Why? Ah, i see

just a JSR function

Oh, well.

Aside from putting the content of your game online, on a secure server, is there any successful commercial game with an anti-piracy device that has not been cracked?

The description of any anti-piracy technique is ultimately a description of how to crack it as well. Nothing is safe. Even things like suicide switches that destroy the game if you open the cart or read certain addresses can be circumvented. Many techniques are error prone and probably lead to a lot more legitimate user frustration (e.g. blinkies) than prevented piracies.

3gengames wrote:Put the ROM with all data compressed in some weird way and then just screwed up and have a boot loader read it, decode it, and then shove it to a huge PRG-RAM inside the 8000-FFFF space?

Wouldn't a pirate just get the data after it was decoded to $8000-$FFFF?

3gengames wrote:then use it as just a JSR function.

If your copy protection is just a function that you JSR to, that should be pretty easy to hack, no?

80sFREAK wrote:I didn't said your ideas bad, just there is another way to do to make surprize

Then fucking say what's on your mind already, instead of "teasing" everyone with your shitty one-line responses. Seriously 80sFREAK, your participation in this forum is quite annoying. You only show up to say that everyone's ideas are crap, but you hardly ever explain why or say what would be a better way to do things. If you have better ideas in mind, just share them right away or shut up. Nobody thinks you are clever just because you're keeping information from us.

You always talking about emulator. Why?

Because we use emulators for developing? Developing exclusively on hardware would be a very tedious task, and even if we could absurdly speed up the time it takes to transfer a new binary to the NES, we still wouldn't have all of the debug features offered by emulators.