Been reading up on SNES repos, have I got my facts straight?

fireaza · Post by **fireaza** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:24 am

Hi there guys! You fellas seem like the knowledgeable sort to run this by, so here goes. For ages, I've wanted to own a number of Japan-only SNES games in English. Then I heard it's possible to take a SNES game and replace the original ROM with one of the many fan-translated versions available on the internet and play them on the original hardware! I've been reading up on how to make SNES reproductions and I think I understand how to make them now, but I thought I'd check with you guys first

Donor Carts
As I understand it, you can make an English version of a Super Famicom game by using the original Super Famicom cart. This is appealing to me, as it greatly simplifies the process (no need to find which game is compatible) and I also get the original label and packaging as well

Is this correct?

The chips
One thing that bothered me with many reproductions I'd seen is the larger games needed multiple eproms soldered together. This really tweaked my sense of aesthetics. But now I see you can get TSOP adaptors that fit the spot that the original ROM was in, no need to solder together multiple eproms, no rats' nest of wires. Much better! Now, as I understand it, the parts required for this style of reproduction are:
29F032
DIP36-TSOP40 Adapter (III)

I've been looking to get these parts from buyicnow.com, and I see they sell what appears to me to be a 29F032 and a DIP36-TSOP40 Adapter (III) pre-assembled. This appeals to me, because this would save some fiddly soldering, plus buyicnow.com also have a programming service, so I wouldn't need a programmer either! Also, is the brand of the 29F032 and it's speed important?

Now, this would be for larger games, but it seems wasteful if the game I'm trying to make is less then 32 Megabit in size. So what are my options in this case? Keep in mind, I'm looking for something neat and tidy in appearance

So what do you guys think? Do I have all the facts right? Let me know!

rkrenicki · Post by **rkrenicki** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:07 am

I was unaware that they started selling pre-populated TSOP adapters, that is
not a horrible price for it either. If I didnt already have about 20 of those made up in my workshop, I would probably pick a few up.

I would use a TSOP for any game over 16mbit up to 32mbit. For 16mbit games, just use a 2 mask board.

Speed of a 29F032 is not important, as every version of that particular chip is more than fast enough for the SNES. That being said, I would not spend any extra money on a faster one, as it would just be wasted capability.

qwertymodo · Post by **qwertymodo** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:10 am

Yes, you can use a SFC cart as a repro donor for an English translation of the same game. Depending on your region, you might need to swap out the CIC for one from your region though. A lot of people here have very strong opinions on repros, especially if you're using a good game as a donor. Personally, unless it's a special chip game, I would rather see you buy the Japanese game (you know, so you legitimately own the game), then buy a crappy sports game to use as your donor, then just swap the boards, so the original Japanese board stays intact, but that's just me I suppose.

Brand doesn't matter as long as it is a *29F032 part number, speed doesn't matter as long as it is -120 or less. More than -120 won't run FastROM games. More than -200 won't work, period (although I've never seen a 29F032 that slow).

I'm pretty sure the SKU that goes with that photo of a pre-assembled board is actually for ordering just the board. The SKU listed as "on board" really makes me think it just hasn't been pulled yet, rather than being on one of the TSOP-DIP adapters (seeing as it's cheaper than either the AM29F032 OR the adapter board separately, it really can't be a preassembled adapter board).

I just received a lot of 10 AM29F032's, which is probably more than I'll ever need, and I ordered the BuyICNow adapter boards to go with them. If you're just interested in one or two, shoot me a PM and I'd be willing to sell you a couple (yes, I know I'm brand new here, long time guest, but I'm good for it, PM me and you can decide if you feel comfortable with it). I'm still waiting on the boards from BuyICNow, and if you want it programmed, that would take a little longer (I don't have a programmer up and running yet...), but we could work something out.

Also, you should take a look a this project: http://nesdev.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=9013

Even if you don't want to have a USB port in your cart, you could still solder in female headers in the pin slots rather than male pin headers and then you'd have a cheap USB programmer for 29F032's already mounted on to an adapter board.

fireaza · Post by **fireaza** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:25 am

rkrenicki wrote:I would use a TSOP for any game over 16mbit up to 32mbit. For 16mbit games, just use a 2 mask board.

"2 mask board"? Can you elaborate? Is that like, 2 eproms or something?

rkrenicki wrote:Speed of a 29F032 is not important, as every version of that particular chip is more than fast enough for the SNES. That being said, I would not spend any extra money on a faster one, as it would just be wasted capability.

As qwertymodo said, so long as it's less than 120, it's all good, and every one of the 29F032s on buyicnow.com are

qwertymodo wrote:Yes, you can use a SFC cart as a repro donor for an English translation of the same game. Depending on your region, you might need to swap out the CIC for one from your region though.

I have both an NTSC and PAL SNES, so I'm all set. Since SFC are NTSC, I shoulden't need to worry about having the swap the CIC right?

qwertymodo wrote:A lot of people here have very strong opinions on repros, especially if you're using a good game as a donor. Personally, unless it's a special chip game, I would rather see you buy the Japanese game (you know, so you legitimately own the game), then buy a crappy sports game to use as your donor, then just swap the boards, so the original Japanese board stays intact, but that's just me I suppose.

I don't fully agree. While it would be really sad to see someone gut a good game to turn it into a different game, in my case, if I could read Japanese, I'd be taking the same game out of circulation anyway

qwertymodo wrote:I'm pretty sure the SKU that goes with that photo of a pre-assembled board is actually for ordering just the board. The SKU listed as "on board" really makes me think it just hasn't been pulled yet, rather than being on one of the TSOP-DIP adapters (seeing as it's cheaper than either the AM29F032 OR the adapter board separately, it really can't be a preassembled adapter board).

I dunno... The DIP36-TSOP40 Adapter (III) only cost $0.65, so I'd say the price is right. I might fire off an email to them an confirm though.

qwertymodo wrote:I just received a lot of 10 AM29F032's, which is probably more than I'll ever need, and I ordered the BuyICNow adapter boards to go with them. If you're just interested in one or two, shoot me a PM and I'd be willing to sell you a couple (yes, I know I'm brand new here, long time guest, but I'm good for it, PM me and you can decide if you feel comfortable with it). I'm still waiting on the boards from BuyICNow, and if you want it programmed, that would take a little longer (I don't have a programmer up and running yet...), but we could work something out.

Thanks for the offer! But since neither of us have a programmer, I think it would be eaiser to just pay the buyicnow.com guys $0.50 to program it for me

That project sounds interesting, but as I said, buyicnow.com can program them for me for the nominal cost of $.50

*EDIT* I just got an email from buyicnow.com, they said:

Yes, this item (item ID :P00002503) is for am29f032B solder on dip36-tsop40 adapter III .
We can burn it for you.
Please add programming service(in the end of item page) into shopping cart.
And send the rom file(s) to buyicnow@gmail.com

So yeah, sounds like they are indeed selling the 29f032 chip soldered into the TSOP adaptor.

So yeah, would this be as simple as buying this chip and adaptor combo, and sending them the English-patched ROM to burn? Or is is it a bit more complex/are other precautions involved?

SkinnyV · Post by **SkinnyV** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:02 am

Not to sound rude or anything but everything you need to know about that subject is already on the board and were explained numerous time before.

qwertymodo · Post by **qwertymodo** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:07 am

fireaza wrote:So yeah, would this be as simple as buying this chip and adaptor combo, and sending them the English-patched ROM to burn? Or is is it a bit more complex/are other precautions involved?

Depends. What game is it?

fireaza · Post by **fireaza** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 6:54 pm

SkinnyV wrote:Not to sound rude or anything but everything you need to know about that subject is already on the board and were explained numerous time before.

Some information, but not all (i.e the fact that buyicnow.com are selling the two parts pre-assembled)

qwertymodo wrote:
fireaza wrote:So yeah, would this be as simple as buying this chip and adaptor combo, and sending them the English-patched ROM to burn? Or is is it a bit more complex/are other precautions involved?
Depends. What game is it?

Seiken Densetsu 3 (AKA Secret of Mana 2) namely. Like, what are the general rules? Are there limits on what characters can be used in the file name? Maximum number of characters? What should the file extension be? Does the ROM need to be edited in some fashion? That kinda thing.

Post by **tepples** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:05 pm

fireaza wrote:Does the ROM need to be edited in some fashion?

It needs to be headerless (.sfc), not with a copier header (.smc, .swc, .fig, etc). And it needs to run in bsnes for two reasons: 1. bsnes enforces a lot of hardware limitations that ZSNES and Snes9x fail to enforce, and 2. bsnes needs ROMs to be headerless.

fireaza · Post by **fireaza** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:15 pm

Gotcha! Do you recommend SNEStool or SNEStuff to remove the header? Out of curiosity, why would the header have been added to the ROM if it wasn't there in the original cartridge? Are there no limitations on what the ROM can be named, so long as it ends in ".sfc" (short for "Super Fami Com" I'm guessing?)?

Post by **tepples** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:37 pm

fireaza wrote:Out of curiosity, why would the header have been added to the ROM if it wasn't there in the original cartridge?

For much the same reason that iNES adds a 16-byte header. Old floppy disk based copiers stored information in the first 512 bytes of the file. New emulators and the SNES PowerPak ignore the copier header and use the information embedded in the ROM at $7FD0 of a LoROM or $FFD0 of a HiROM.

Are there no limitations on what the ROM can be named, so long as it ends in ".sfc" (short for "Super Fami Com" I'm guessing?)?

I don't know how their system works, but I'd recommend making sure the name uses only basic Latin (ASCII) characters, not Japanese characters or anything like that.

fireaza · Post by **fireaza** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 8:06 pm

Ah, so the SNES itself isn't too bothered, but the programmer might? I follow you.

Well, I think I'm about ready. Sounds like all I need to do is patch the original ROM, remove the header, make sure the file ends in ".sfc", buy the 29f032 TSOP adaptor combo, email them the file, and this should result in a ready-to-solder chip that I can throw into the original SFC cart!

pichichi010 · Post by **pichichi010** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 9:19 pm

What about repros on new board with new parts? will that be bad?

Im looking into doing this.

By the way, off topic. I am looking into getting an undumped game, which I think it does not have eproms, but epoxy bubble.

Is there any other way to dump the information?

I was thinking Retrode, but I don't want to spend 90 bucks to dump only one game.

fireaza · Post by **fireaza** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:31 pm

pichichi010 wrote:What about repros on new board with new parts? will that be bad?

I've heard of this, but I didn't think the parts were available to the general public?

Okay, I'm trying to find a suitable Seiken Densetsu 3 ROM to use the English patch on, and I've found two. One with a ".smc" extension and one with a ".sfc" extension, both 4mb. Now, I would think the ".sfc" version would be the better one, since it should be closer to what was on the original cartridge (I'm worried that the .smc version isn't as accurate of a dump as the .sfc version), but the English patcher doesn't handle .sfc files! What's up with that? Am I suppose to patch the .smc, remove it's header and rename it's extension to ".sfc"?

*EDIT* I've found a tool called "SNES Purify" by the bsnes guy. I loaded up the English-patched Seiken Densetsu 3 .smc, and it found that the file had a header, and it's file extension was wrong, and corrected both. The game now plays in bsnes. I take it that this program has, well, purified the .smc and is the same as if it were freshly dumped as a .sfc? I'd hate to get this new .sfc burned then find I was suppose to go about the process a different way and the cart won't play

rkrenicki · Post by **rkrenicki** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:33 am

As long as the file is exactly 4,194,304 bytes long, it is correct for burning.

I know that when I burn roms to 29f032s using my GQ-3X, I leave the smc file as-is with no stripping of headers.

fireaza · Post by **fireaza** » Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:44 am

It is indeed 4,194,304 bytes, thanks for the tip!

Alright, so I've got the English patched ROM. It's the correct size, it's been though SNES Purify (headers removed, renamed ".sfc"), it plays correctly in BSNES, is this bad boy ready to rumble? Is it simply a matter of burning the .sfc and soldering the whole shebang into the donor Seiken Densetsu 3 Super Famicom cart?