nesdev.org

tepples wrote:Perhaps the fear is that one will buy something and then it will soon go unsupported by the manufacturer.

First of all, unless you buy something that's 10 years old, support for a device will usually continue even after newer revisions are released.

Second, if something's about to stop being supported, everyone probably already knows, except in super-extreme circumstances where the manufacturer suddenly and unexpectedly goes out of business.

It's marketing. They'll keep doing it as long as you keep buying them. So either stop buying them or stop complaining... I really don't see the point of this whole discussion. Would you be satisfied if they all went out of business and stopped making them all together?

I think we're better off debating how they should have never discontinued the NES (or should release another).

infiniteneslives wrote:I think we're better off debating how they should have never discontinued the NES (or should release another).

No console should ever be discontinued. All companies should forever release new games for every console they ever made and periodically release redesigned versions of all consoles.

Heh, now that I think of it, TecToy is kinda like that with the Master System and the Mega Drive here in Brazil... The bad thing is that the games suck and the newer consoles are just crappy emulators.

tokumaru wrote:No console should ever be discontinued. All companies should forever release new games for every console they ever made and periodically release redesigned versions of all consoles.

That or rerelease every game for each of its consoles on every successive console, just as movies from the VHS era were rereleased on DVD, and movies from the DVD era were rereleased on Blu-ray. Nintendo is half doing this with Virtual Console on Wii.

tepples wrote:That or rerelease every game for each of its consoles on every successive console, just as movies from the VHS era were rereleased on DVD, and movies from the DVD era were rereleased on Blu-ray.

As long as the quality improves with each rerelease, as is the case with movies.

Nintendo is half doing this with Virtual Console on Wii.

Problem is Nintendo tends to use bad emulators instead of remastering the games.

tokumaru wrote:As long as the quality improves with each rerelease, as is the case with movies.

Some fans of the original Star Wars trilogy would disagree.

OK, as is the case with most movies.

infiniteneslives wrote: I think we're better off debating how they should have never discontinued the NES (or should release another).

Someone needs to release a functional 1:1 NES clone. I'm tired of all the shitty clones. Why can't anyone release something that doesn't have off colors, sound, cart port wiring issues, etc? It shouldn't be so hard to just make a NES.

MottZilla wrote:Why can't anyone release something that doesn't have off colors, sound, cart port wiring issues, etc?

Because designing, validating, and fabricating a 5.0 V ASIC is expensive, as in many, many thousands of dollars for the first unit, for something that might not see a lot of sales. "Off colors" depends on precisely replicating the analog circuit path of the NES. But all of this might be helped by the APU and PPU schematics that org is working on.

tokumaru wrote:No console should ever be discontinued. All companies should forever release new games for every console they ever made and periodically release redesigned versions of all consoles.

The NES is currently in its 4th major revision, the Wii. The 5th major revision (WiiU) is pretty close by.

tepples wrote:Because designing, validating, and fabricating a 5.0 V ASIC is expensive, as in many, many thousands of dollars for the first unit, for something that might not see a lot of sales. "Off colors" depends on precisely replicating the analog circuit path of the NES. But all of this might be helped by the APU and PPU schematics that org is working on.

Isn't the copyright on the chip design long expired by now anyway? Are there any legal barriers to someone refabricating the original chips at this point? I don't know what other kinds of patents might still be in effect, but it seems like the problem of chip design is something we might be able to bypass that this point.

Patents expire after 20. But I don't know how easy it'd be to reproduce an IC from pictures of masks designed for a long-obsolete fabrication process, nor how to make a reproduction controller whose Control Pad doesn't feel sloppy like that of every controller not made by Nintendo or Sony, nor how to market an obsolete console that plays mostly out-of-print games.

You can't just cheaply "copy" a chip that you don't have the original design to. You have to go through the whole process that org is doing in his current thread (or pay someone a LOT) of money to do it for you. And even still getting an exact analog match for sound/video is difficult compared to the digital design of the CPU and all. Basically the only viable option is to redesign it from the ground up. But the problem with that is what everyone's complaining about with it not being a perfect match.

Heh, now that I think of it, TecToy is kinda like that with the Master System and the Mega Drive here in Brazil... The bad thing is that the games suck and the newer consoles are just crappy emulators.

This organization sells a $10 Famiclone in the form of a computer so kids can play educational games. It seems to be recruiting volunteer programmers to make what is basically NES software (You can see some 6502 code and yy-chr being used in the introduction video montage). The games are probably lame but the idea is still interesting.
http://www.racketboy.com/journal/playpo ... -the-world
http://playpower.org/

infiniteneslives wrote:You can't just cheaply "copy" a chip that you don't have the original design to. You have to go through the whole process that org is doing in his current thread (or pay someone a LOT) of money to do it for you. And even still getting an exact analog match for sound/video is difficult compared to the digital design of the CPU and all. Basically the only viable option is to redesign it from the ground up. But the problem with that is what everyone's complaining about with it not being a perfect match.

At that point, to replicate perfectly the NTSC color generation circuitry from the original 2C02 PPU seems not worth the effort - if a chip is to be re-designed and re-fabricated, a better RGB look-up table implementation somewhat like the 2C03B did would be preferable.