1989 famicom with true rgb, s-video, stereo sound

[Drakon]

Hot glue is great because it does a good job of holding projects together, but if you need to do work a little isopropyl alcohol will do the job to remove it.

Finally someone who gets it. I actually just heat up the glue with a soldering iron and remove it with some tweezers it takes me like a whole 2 seconds. I've met plenty of people online who had their stuff break because a wire that wasn't glued down snapped off and either they weren't able to resolder the wire or it shorted something and bricked the system.

[mikejmoffitt]

Hot glue is great because it does a good job of holding projects together, but if you need to do work a little isopropyl alcohol will do the job to remove it.

Finally someone who gets it. I actually just heat up the glue with a soldering iron and remove it with some tweezers it takes me like a whole 2 seconds. I've met plenty of people online who had their stuff break because a wire that wasn't glued down snapped off and either they weren't able to resolder the wire or it shorted something and bricked the system.

The worst is when the pad gets ripped up.

[keropi]

Hot glue is great because it does a good job of holding projects together, but if you need to do work a little isopropyl alcohol will do the job to remove it.

Finally someone who gets it. I actually just heat up the glue with a soldering iron and remove it with some tweezers it takes me like a whole 2 seconds. I've met plenty of people online who had their stuff break because a wire that wasn't glued down snapped off and either they weren't able to resolder the wire or it shorted something and bricked the system.

I'll have to disagree. If someone needs to use so much glue to secure something then he needs to reconsider his modding/assembling/soldering methods. So much glue is only found on very cheap electronics and is used just for what you say here: to hold the thing together.
At any rate, each one has his methods and way of thinking , you can't argue with something that works ...

[mikejmoffitt]

Hot glue is great because it does a good job of holding projects together, but if you need to do work a little isopropyl alcohol will do the job to remove it.

Finally someone who gets it. I actually just heat up the glue with a soldering iron and remove it with some tweezers it takes me like a whole 2 seconds. I've met plenty of people online who had their stuff break because a wire that wasn't glued down snapped off and either they weren't able to resolder the wire or it shorted something and bricked the system.

I'll have to disagree. If someone needs to use so much glue to secure something then he needs to reconsider his modding/assembling/soldering methods. So much glue is only found on very cheap electronics and is used just for what you say here: to hold the thing together.
At any rate, each one has his methods and way of thinking , you can't argue with something that works ...

Professionally made products often don't need anything like hot glue (which isn't even really a glue) because integrated into the product is some form of strain relief; for example, an NES controller has the cord inside go around several plastic posts before leaving the case. In the case of a modification, these aren't present. No matter how good your soldering is, if you have a few wires soldered to some scraped-up traces of copper and you yank the wires, it's not going to be lovely. You should never rely on soldering for anything remotely structural.

[keropi]

Professionally made products often don't need anything like hot glue (which isn't even really a glue) because integrated into the product is some form of strain relief; for example, an NES controller has the cord inside go around several plastic posts before leaving the case. In the case of a modification, these aren't present. No matter how good your soldering is, if you have a few wires soldered to some scraped-up traces of copper and you yank the wires, it's not going to be lovely. You should never rely on soldering for anything remotely structural.

A controller cord is a way too different case than internal cabling in a console. That internal cabling does not receive any kind of stress , something that is expected from a controller.
Even in the controller case though, hot glue is not the best option since like you said it's not really a glue. You are way better with a cable knot inside the controller than any amount of hot glue.
Hot glue is useful to hold things in place , in small doses and in places that does not get in the way of repairs or replacements. In no way soldering is to be treated as permanent fixing or glue as solder replacement.
I hope it's clearer now what I mean.

[tepples]

A controller cord is a way too different case than internal cabling in a console. That internal cabling does not receive any kind of stress

Tell that to anybody who has ever tripped over a controller cable. There's a reason that Xbox and Xbox 360 controllers have an inline release.

[Movax12]

There's a reason that Xbox and Xbox 360 controllers have an inline release.

I think this is the reason:



No one wants an XBOX console landing on their kid's head. Especially Microsoft.

[keropi]

A controller cord is a way too different case than internal cabling in a console. That internal cabling does not receive any kind of stress

Tell that to anybody who has ever tripped over a controller cable. There's a reason that Xbox and Xbox 360 controllers have an inline release.

so according to you, the cabling of the rgb mod are likely to sustain the same stress as the famicom's controller cable?
and btw, here are the internals of a wired 360 controller:



the only cable is the cable that connects to to system and naturally it is molded to absorb shocks before it reaches the pcb, no one argues with the success of this solution. I still don't see how the controller cable is related to internal cabling , unless you believe that if the pcb was covered in hot glue it would react better to shocks?

[koitsu]

I see absolutely nothing about that cable that indicates its "moulded to absorb shocks", because you chose to post a picture of the wrong side of the PCB. The grey rubber used at the ingress point where the cable meets the plastic shell of the controller is not for relieving pull stress; it's for relieving tension induced by cable bending (left/right or up/down). That rubber moulding and the plastic shell of the controller will not withstand pull stress.

Here's a much more relevant picture:

http://hothardware.com/newsimages/Item8 ... roller.jpg

Note that the wires in the cable go to a socketable connector ("white thing") that's on the PCB. If you pull really, really hard on this cable (and assuming it wasn't connected via USB; i.e. let's pretend the cable is soldered right on to a PCB inside of the console, such that the cable is not detachable), I can assure you that connector on the PCB, and/or the wiring, will tear itself loose.

This is one of the main reasons why Nintendo made the NES controllers socketable (vs. being hard-wired like the Famicom), and why every console made since then has used sockets as well; kids and human beings trip over them all the time. Do you know how many people I personally know who have had their laptops destroyed as a result of their children or pets running through the house while the AC adapter was plugged in, yanking the laptop off the table? Why is Apple's magnetic power AC power connector (MagSafe) so popular (barring the L-shaped one, which is an engineering design mistake from hell; the 1st and 2nd-gen connectors are engineered properly)? Surely it must be bullshit, right? :-)

[keropi]

so I am supposed to somehow believe that the molded cable INSIDE THE RED SQUARE , is not supposed to absorb cable shocks such as pulling ?

here, I'm gonna use your picture because mine apparently "indicates nothing" for the cable and we also need to see what's after the mold for some reason:



That mold "secures" with the controllers frame, in order to pull and rip off the connector inside you will have to actually break the controller's frame where said mold nests and then the cable will pull the connector with it. Believe it or not that's it's primary function. If there wasn't such a mold then you would have some sort of zig-zag mechanism going inside that would absorb pulling - like the famicom or even ps1/2 pads. The same mold can be seen in almost every factory made appliance.

in fact, let me break it down to you with a dvd player that I happen to repair atm and it's power cable (that is the same basic design as your 360 controller one)
Here is where it nests (metal dvd frame = controller frame)



and here is a breakdown of the mold on the cable and what are it's uses:



on the red square you have the same "pulling protection" since if you try to pull the cable the metal frame will absorb it
on the green square you have your protection against "relieving tension induced by cable bending (left/right or up/down)"

back on the 360 wired controller you can see in green the bending relieving mechanism and in red the pulling protection and where it secures on the pastic frame (and in extend you 360 controller picture is not that relevant since it actually misses the bending protection stuff)




I don't get it at all, are you trying to explain me this in other words? Can you also pinpoint me the part where I said that soldering cables is secure and you can wank them all you want?
It all begun with a fail comparison of internal cabling with a controller cable and now I am wondering if my English is so bad that somehow I don't get you people to understand what my point is.

Once again, a gazillion hot glue inside this rgb mod offers NOTHING, it does not secure anything and it just makes afterwork harder. Those cables (of the rgb mod) DO NOT suffer any kind of stress. They just needed a small amount of glue to keep them in place and nothing more. That's of course MY HUMBLE OPINION and I have said that in my very first post here.
Then someone started talking about controller cables and I replied that instead of using hotglue to secure the cable in the controller it is better to tie a knot with it and have it inside the controller's frame so you cannot rip it off easily. Hot glue does not secure a cable. The knot inside will protect the connections when pulling whereas hot glue will just break after some force is applied. This knot "technique" is too old and cheap and is widely used in stuff that need to have some cable pulling protection and they use plain standard cables.
Here is an example:



the knot is used as protection from pulling, if anyone thinks that the same level of protection can be achieved by any amount of hot glue then I have nothing more to say.

Hot glue in huge amounts is used in cheap stuff to hold the whole thing together. One can use it as he wants , noone argues with that but other opinions do exist.

Anyway, that's the last thing I have to say on the subject, I already wrote too much and it's way OT at this point.
Not trying to start a flame war btw, just re-writting my thoughts and with greater detail (hopefully)

[Drakon]

A controller cord is a way too different case than internal cabling in a console. That internal cabling does not receive any kind of stress , something that is expected from a controller.
Even in the controller case though, hot glue is not the best option since like you said it's not really a glue. You are way better with a cable knot inside the controller than any amount of hot glue.
Hot glue is useful to hold things in place , in small doses and in places that does not get in the way of repairs or replacements. In no way soldering is to be treated as permanent fixing or glue as solder replacement.
I hope it's clearer now what I mean.

I don't understand, you suggest I knot all 40 ide wires connecting my remote ppu socket instead of just gluing them into place? Anyway modded consoles usually go through a lot of tinkering (opening up and removing the circuit to change things) since people find circuit improvements. I've found plenty of people online who tinkered with their modded console and then it broke because something snapped off.

[keropi]

I don't understand, you suggest I knot all 40 ide wires connecting my remote ppu socket instead of just gluing them into place?

Is your famicom a controller? is your mod a controller cable? in what part exactly I am suggesting to use knots on your rgb mod?
What I am suggesting was to solder your cables in their place and use a little glue to keep them from moving, nothing more - nothing less.
If you solder your rgb cables correctly they won't just snap off, having cold solders and relying on hot glue so your work won't snap off is a bad idea.

Anyway modded consoles usually go through a lot of tinkering (opening up and removing the circuit to change things) since people find circuit improvements.

and that's why you DON"T NEED to use so much hot glue. Your mods become inaccessible. You need to remove the glue, risking lifting a pad/track and all that in vain since that much glue on this particular area is really useless unless you want to play football with the pcb and need to secure it in a mass of glue or something.


Anyway I'm done with the subject for real this time, when people understand that they need to use the knot trick on an rgb mod then it's a sign that I really can't write comprehensible things

[Movax12]

Cool, you chose to post a picture of a XIM2 Edit: better link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YOdEmBZbd0s
Edit: koitsu's picture.

[Drakon]

and that's why you DON"T NEED to use so much hot glue. Your mods become inaccessible. You need to remove the glue, risking lifting a pad/track and all that in vain since that much glue on this particular area is really useless unless you want to play football with the pcb and need to secure it in a mass of glue or something.


Anyway I'm done with the subject for real this time, when people understand that they need to use the knot trick on an rgb mod then it's a sign that I really can't write comprehensible things

I've gotten really efficient at removing hot glue, it's really not in my way when I need to redo something.

[koitsu]

so I am supposed to somehow believe that the molded cable INSIDE THE RED SQUARE , is not supposed to absorb cable shocks such as pulling ?

When pulling directly (vs. side-to-side), yes.

That mold "secures" with the controllers frame, in order to pull and rip off the connector inside you will have to actually break the controller's frame where said mold nests and then the cable will pull the connector with it. Believe it or not that's it's primary function.

No, it's not. The primary function is to resist stress on the white plastic connector / soldering points inside when the cord is moved left/right or up/down, and the secondary function is to resist pull stress -- and it does the latter very, very badly.

If there wasn't such a mold then you would have some sort of zig-zag mechanism going inside that would absorb pulling - like the famicom or even ps1/2 pads. The same mold can be seen in almost every factory made appliance.

The "zig-zag" method, re: cables "routed" around plastic posts used to hold screws, also does not work reliably, usually because the plastic moulding of the controller and the underlying screw holes is very soft.

in fact, let me break it down to you with a dvd player that I happen to repair atm and it's power cable (that is the same basic design as your 360 controller one)

...

This has the same problem as the wired Xbox 360 controller I linked. In fact, what you're showing is even worse -- this would break loose with very little pull tension; the 360 controller would withstand more, but only a slight bit more.

Look at the pictures. Surely you can see what the problem is, no? I don't think it takes a physics major to figure this one out. On the 360 controller, the issue is that the depth of the groove in the rubber (which the plastic shell of the controller goes into, thus "preventing stress") is not deep enough. It must be as deep as possible, because all the tension/stress is going to end up there when pulling.

On your DVD player, it's even worse because 1) the groove in the rubber is not sufficiently deep, and 2) they've used a rubber mould with a metal casing; metal shreds plastic, especially unsanded edges like that of a cut-out in a metal chassis.

on the red square you have the same "pulling protection" since if you try to pull the cable the metal frame will absorb it on the green square you have your protection against "relieving tension induced by cable bending (left/right or up/down)"
...
back on the 360 wired controller you can see in green the bending relieving mechanism and in red the pulling protection and where it secures on the pastic frame (and in extend you 360 controller picture is not that relevant since it actually misses the bending protection stuff)
...

And I'm telling you the rubber where the "red square" is does not solve the problem sufficiently. Period.

...Then someone started talking about controller cables and I replied that instead of using hotglue to secure the cable in the controller it is better to tie a knot with it and have it inside the controller's frame so you cannot rip it off easily. Hot glue does not secure a cable. The knot inside will protect the connections when pulling whereas hot glue will just break after some force is applied. This knot "technique" is too old and cheap and is widely used in stuff that need to have some cable pulling protection and they use plain standard cables.
...

The knot technique is really quite good -- assuming the underlying plastic casing is very, very strong/rigid, it works amazingly well, way better than rubber inserts. Some devices actually used a different kind of plastic where the cord ingress hole was (i.e. a stronger plastic), combined with the knot method, and that works wonderfully. I would trust something using the knot method with strong plastic over shitty rubber moulding with a 2mm groove in the rubber.

I fully agree that hot glue will not solve this problem. All that does is localise the stress point to where the hot glue begins; in those situations, cable pulling results in the actual wires literally ripping in half (which isn't ideal either). On the other hand, the knot method combined with hot glue (except applying hot glue at the ingress point where the controller cable comes in to the plastic mould itself) can actually work, but that's really not the point I'm trying to make. The point I'm trying to make is that the rubber used to "relieve stress" in controllers does not generally work well due to the issues I mentioned above; the knot method does work as long as you have strong plastic at the ingress point, and if you don't, the knot method + hot glue (at the ingress point) can work well.